Improvising 101 (12 bar shuffle in G)

lueders
Posts: 0
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 2:53 am
Status: Offline

Fri Jul 01, 2011 8:45 pm

Daryl, you're doin kind of a jazzy thing there.Definitely doesn't sound like conventional blues...but I think a lot of it works real well.


I have a comment about your number # 5: (5) I lack creativity and have a limited "vocabulary of phrases (this thread will help with that I hope) I was reading a recent guitar magazine and there was an article on building solos. The author made the statement that "contrary to popular belief most don't fail to solo effectively for a lack of vocabulary.It is more how they fail to use what they know." Then the article went on to cite Angus Young as a creative soloist that has a very limited vocabulary and still does so much creatively with it.

Anyways I thought that was kinda interesting...


willem
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:53 am
Status: Offline

Sat Jul 02, 2011 2:49 am

daryl wrote:
Boy, 2 minutes and 45 seconds is an eternity! Here’s my attempt at improvising with Neil’s blues shuffle in G. None of what I played was planned. The only thing I tried to do was stay in the G MAJOR pentatonic scale (G A B D E) with the blue note (Bb) thrown in. Some of the phrases work OK. Others not so much. Major problems for me are (1) lack of direction (it goes no where); (2) no big finish (just more and more of the same); (3) never a bend anywhere (my bends are always flat or sharp); (4) I’m always afraid to play a note outside of the scale (whenever I attempt to play outside the scale I hit a sour/off note – never a sweet one); (5) I lack creativity and have a limited "vocabulary of phrases (this thread will help with that I hope); (6) I’m sure there are many more problems…

Now with all the above self-criticism I must say my improvising skills have grown tremendously since I started these Improvising 101 threads (because I have been "forced" to work towards uploading videos for others to see and am no longer just noodling around for myself). So….

Tony, please give it a try (and others too). It’s only 5 notes (6 if you throw in the blue one). Choose a position, find your 5 notes, and make 2 note phrases, then 3 note phrases. That’s enough for a start. Join Cori and me in our improv quest….


So here’s my attempt:


Daryl i love it and i think i get the taste of it to try one myself,, i like especialy were you hit a view notes at Claptons place(12 fret)


User avatar
daryl
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2010 9:21 am
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Status: Offline

Sat Jul 02, 2011 5:54 am

Cori, I'm wondering what in particular you're hearing as jazzy. The notes? I'd be surprised because I mainly played G MAJOR pentatonic with a flatted 3rd (Bb) here and there. The phrasing? Where? Did the article you site talk about "HOW to use what you know"? Will you be uploading a "full-blown" shuffle video? I think I may attempt another using the G MINOR pentatonic to see what comes out. BTW on a scale of 1 to 100 where would you rate yourself improvisation-wise? For myself, I'd say I'm in the 5 to 10 range.

Willem, Thank you. Great to hear that you will try! Looking forward to it. And don't feel you have to upload an entire improv (02:45) the first time. Twelve or twenty-four bars would be a HUGE step. But, like I said earlier, working at making an improv video has improved my skills immensely already!


lueders
Posts: 0
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 2:53 am
Status: Offline

Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:38 am

Howdy Daryl, (5-10 range for me too!)

I thought it was mainly in your phrasing.And don't get me wrong, I liked it! INMHO, the way the notes/flourish of notes were organized together it had a distinctive jazz-blues flavor. It is nice and bouncey. A little less basic call & response sounding...like a lot of blues music tends to be.( Which I enjoyed.)I think it might of had more of a "brightness" to it because you weren't throwing in, for example the C# (on the third string) or the the F note on the second string. Which is pretty common blues lick type stuff... By now,pretty cliched sounding really.Very Albert King sounding stuff that everybody and their dog ripped off.

b.t.w.When I get home in a day or two I will dig up that article and get the info to you...It was mainly taking about how to create tension, build up a theme in a solo and all this other really cool stuff. I mean, I can't do any of it. But it is still cool! It would be good for us to be trying to figure some of that out.

P>S> We might try a E minor scale? Which is essentially the same thing as your G major. Then again, there are heck of a lot of blues tricks to be mined out there. I think I'll keep working on this shuffle...and try to find some stuff I can steal.


User avatar
daryl
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2010 9:21 am
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Status: Offline

Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:51 am

lueders wrote:
Howdy Daryl, (5-10 range for me too!)

I thought it was mainly in your phrasing.And don't get me wrong, I liked it! INMHO, the way the notes/flourish of notes were organized together it had a distinctive jazz-blues flavor. It is nice and bouncey. A little less basic call & response sounding...like a lot of blues music tends to be.( Which I enjoyed.)I think it might of had more of a "brightness" to it because you weren't throwing in, for example the C# (on the third string) or the the F note on the second string. Which is pretty common blues lick type stuff... By now,pretty cliched sounding really.Very Albert King sounding stuff that everybody and their dog ripped off.

b.t.w.When I get home in a day or two I will dig up that article and get the info to you...It was mainly taking about how to create tension, build up a theme in a solo and all this other really cool stuff. I mean, I can't do any of it. But it is still cool! It would be good for us to be trying to figure some of that out.

P>S> We might try a E minor scale? Which is essentially the same thing as your G major. Then again, there are heck of a lot of blues tricks to be mined out there. I think I'll keep working on this shuffle...and try to find some stuff I can steal.
My improv was "brighter" because I used the "happier" MAJOR pentatonic scale (which doesn't include the C# nor the F notes). Aren't those notes (C# [or rather Db] and F) part of the G MINOR pentatonic scale? The Db being the flatted 5th and the F being the flatted 7th? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Will you put up an example or 2 using the C#/Db and F notes (please)?

And am looking forward to the information from the article. It sounds like exactly what we should be looking at and striving for.


lueders
Posts: 0
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 2:53 am
Status: Offline

Sat Jul 02, 2011 5:49 pm

[My improv was "brighter" because I used the "happier" MAJOR pentatonic scale (which doesn't include the C# nor the F notes). Aren't those notes (C# [or rather Db] and F) part of the G MINOR pentatonic scale? The Db being the flatted 5th and the F being the flatted 7th? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

As I understand it- a G major penatonic is: G,A,B,D,E...back to G
- a G minor penatonic is: G,Bb,C,D,F
- for a G blues scale a passing tone or so called blue note is added : G,Bb,C,Db,D,F

Like Tony stated in, Wilem's current Blues thread... I definitely think the extended blues scale pattern gives you a lot more places to land and a lot more options without being too overwhelming.


AndyT
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:06 am
Status: Offline

Sun Jul 03, 2011 4:10 am

If you are playing the song in a Major key, then use the relative minor scale with the blue notes added. That's the most common way to do it and I think you will be surprised just how bluesy it sounds once you put it over a progression.

Playing in G, use the E minor pentatonic with blue notes added, and use the whole neck. The scale covers the entire neck, not just 4 or 5 frets.


dekotaj
Posts: 0
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:23 am
Status: Offline

Sun Jul 03, 2011 12:12 pm

I have never tried this before so take it easy on me.I'm way behind the curve here.In fact I'm so far behind it I thought I was playing in G major.But when I ask Daryl to look at this before putting it up.He let me know that its was in G minor.Talk about not having a clue!!What the heck it was a lot of fun to set down and mess around with it.And just maybe if you folks can slow your teaching curve down to match my learning curve.I just might start to understand this guitar playing a lot better than I do now??????







Come on folks join me.Help me learn this stuff.SHOW me your stuff.

Kevin


dekotaj
Posts: 0
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:23 am
Status: Offline

Sun Jul 03, 2011 12:17 pm

Hey Andy.

Can you put something up showing me what you mean.I'm playing in G because I start on a G note when starting the scale.But E would be open or at 12???

Kevin


lueders
Posts: 0
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 2:53 am
Status: Offline

Sun Jul 03, 2011 12:42 pm

Kevin!!

First off...welcome aboard! (Daryl & I were getting lonely.lol!) Secondly, I think you have the feel for this. Your timing is pretty darn good and that is MORE than half the battle, right there...There were some passages in there that worked very well. I'm gonna steal a couple of 'em. At 1:55, you do a REALLY cool little run on the lower strings. That I REALLY like!

Thanks so much for putting this up here, Kev...I really appreciate it. And, I know Daryl does too.
We have been learning so much, and having so much fun doing this. I hope we see more of you...

Cori


Post Reply Previous topicNext topic