>>New Target Member Exclusive Lesson Addition - Fretboard Geometry Part 4 - Doug Young

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willem
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Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:28 pm

thereshopeyet wrote:
Doug

......and sharing the ideas here is a great test of the material.
Yeah, I like that idea.......

:)

The Natural Minor scale pattern of steps and half steps is - T S T T S T T

So I think that would be -

T S T (212)

Skip a tone (2)

S T T (122)

212 - skip 2 - 122

I think ?

:ohmy:

Doug Wrote:
Must I read it like,,,''tone skip tone tone skip tone tone''...

B)


thereshopeyet
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Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:40 pm

Willem

T = Tone - 2 Steps - Whole Step
S = Semitone - Half Step

Sorry, that's how I remember it.

I've edited my first post.... we cross posted....

Sorry about that too.

:)

Edit

I clip my Westfield chromatic tuner to the head stock to keep track of the notes too.
I think that will help me remember them.

:ohmy:


willem
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Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:52 pm

thereshopeyet wrote:
Willem

T = Tone - 2 Steps - Whole Step
S = Semitone - Half Step

Sorry, that's how I remember it.

I've edited my first post.... we cross posted....

Sorry about that too.

:)

Edit

I clip my Westfield chromatic tuner to the head stock to keep track of the notes too.
I think that will help me remember them.

:ohmy:
clear!,,great idea with the tuner..

When I hear a majeur scale i Always hear do-re-mi-fa-sol-la-ti -do ,,don't no what I hear with a minor..

Willem


thereshopeyet
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Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:01 pm

Willem Wrote:
.....don't no what I hear with a minor..
Maybe .....Play the Major Scale first...... then compare what you hear with the minor scale..... easier said than heard, eh ! :dry:
:ohmy:

minor scale = Flat 3rd ..... I notice that then ..... causes..... Flat 6th = Eb and Flat 7th = F to maintain the pattern.

I'm uncertain about the best fingering for the minor natural scale.
I suppose the idea is to go for the easiest fingering smaller stretches ?

I think I'll concentrate on the Major Scales first as it's just going to throw a spanner in the works for me.

:)


willem
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Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:18 pm

thereshopeyet wrote:
Willem Wrote:
.....don't no what I hear with a minor..
Maybe .....Play the Major Scale first...... then compare what you hear with the minor scale..... easier said than heard, eh ! :dry:
:ohmy:

minor scale = Flat 3rd ..... I notice that then ..... causes..... Flat 6th = Eb and Flat 7th = F to maintain the pattern.

I'm uncertain about the best fingering for the minor natural scale.
I suppose the idea is to go for the easiest fingering smaller stretches ?

I think I'll concentrate on the Major Scales first as it's just going to throw a spanner in the works for me.

:)
first for me too,,I found it very interesting(Dougs!) and logic that with two frets ,one fret,next string,,and the paterns numbering,,etc, special i like it when combining it with a chord and find a way back or fort in the scale..(I still want to call the notes by there names!!)

Willem


thereshopeyet
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Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:23 pm

I like it too Willem
I think I might remember the fretboard notes this way too !

G Natural Minor Scale

Image


dougyoung
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Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:32 pm

Yeah, the minors gets complicated and it's easy to mess up. That's why I like doing it with a guitar in hand :-). What I described was actually the Dorian minor scale. The Am minor Dorian has one sharp, so it's

A B C D (1st half)
E F# G A (2nd half)

The intervals in each half are 2frets, 1fret, 2 frets. With a 2 fret jump between them.

The other minors have the same bottom half, different top halves.


haoli25
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Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:07 pm

Great lessons, Doug. I look forward to your book. Thank you.

Bill


dougyoung
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Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:33 pm

OK, with guitar in hand, let's straighten out my sleepy-eyed mis-statement this morning.

The bottom line of the major scale is that the scale can be seen as two symmetrical halves, with interval steps (in frets) of:

2 2 1 - slide up 2 - 2 2 1

The Dorian minor scale is also symmetrical:

2 1 2 - slide up 2 - 2 1 2

The natural minor scale is not symmetrical, it's

2 1 2 - slide up 2 - 1 2 2

Melodic minor is the minor bottom half, major top half:

2 1 2 - slide up 2 - 2 2 1

Harmonic minor is just weird :-)

2 1 2 - slide up 2 - 1 3 1

So all minor scales share the bottom half pattern, and you basically have every combination of the upper notes. In fact, if you put together the Dorian+natural+melodic+harmonic, you'd have the lower half being the 2 1 2 pattern, and the upper half contains every chromatic step between the 5th and the octave. To some extent, in a minor key, those can all be valid.

You can also look at the natural minor a different way, which ends up being somewhat symmetrical. If instead of trying to split the scale into 2 halves, we think of it as:

2 - 1 2 - 2 - 1 2 - 2

It starts to feel symmetrical again! I always feel like there's a connection between music, music theory and numerology :-) There are endless patterns there, all depending on how you look at them.


thereshopeyet
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Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:07 pm

Doug

Thanks for the great summary.
You don't need to make excuses about being tired Doug..... I wish I could play like you !!! :)
I'll need to keep with the Major scale and get it sorted first.
Thanks

Dermot
:)

Doug Wrote:
So all minor scales share the bottom half pattern, and you basically have every combination of the upper notes. In fact, if you put together the Dorian+natural+melodic+harmonic, you'd have the lower half being the 2 1 2 pattern, and the upper half contains every chromatic step between the 5th and the octave. To some extent, in a minor key, those can all be valid.
That statement I find tough to get my head around Doug...... Dorian+natural+melodic+harmonic etc..... :ohmy:
Can you explain that a little further ? :ohmy:

:S :blush:

The melodic minor is different descending from ascending, so does that mean a pattern difference ascending and descending ?


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