Neil is ...

[Music Junkie]

wrench wrote:

MJ,

I resisted Neil's G at first on the grounds that my fairly short fingers failed to arch sufficiently to reach the 5th and 6th strings cleanly. I then noticed that Neil said in one of his videos to finger the 5th and 6th strings first, then the 1st string. Worked.

wrench

Yeah, that is how I go at it as well (heard the same comment). It just feels sooooo strange. Kinda off. That will go away, I' sure. Just gotta stick with it.

[AndyT]

All of you are correct. Wrench, you hit it. By stopping everything except playing basic chords with my hand in the best possible position, I'm looking for those basic things that have to be in place. Then when I put it all back together again, I should have a grip that is loose, flexible and simple to move.

Sometimes we have to go backwards before we discover the fundamental basic that we missed the last time through. I know I started all my katas over many many times just to discover something so simple I missed it every time through. That is what I'm doing now with guitar. I will figure this thing out and when I do, Look out!

[heyjoe]

Couldnt agree with you more Andy.

Sometimes we all have to get back to basics, get the fundamentals right first and go from there, sure you'll feel like a beginner for a while, but a few months down the line things will change, and you'll be back to the standard you were...just you'll have improved because the fundamentals will be right.

My take on what Neil is teaching is thats he is going for economy and ease of movement to produce maximum results, which is what I'm focussing on now, getting my body posture right, getting rid of the baseball grip (only using it where needed), and using a metronome to keep time.


Good luck with what you are doing, you know it'll improve your playing, and as I know, its not an easy step to take, but you'll be rewarded later on down the line.

Thanks

Joe

[AndyT]

Thanks Joe. Once I get back to where I was I know I will be much better off than I was a week ago. I'll be able to play more than one way! LOL

[neverfoundthetime]

@wrench: Some karma for you man. Good coaching
Andy, I'm together with two groups of sportsmen/women(squash)at the moment and we are having some very deep discussions about technique. As you can imagine, it gets controversial at times. I have mid level players, two world class players and a current national champion in the groups. getting from intermediate to top level is full of these pitfalls: what to leave in, what to change. We all have different personalities which we express in in our playing and we have different physical tendencies, inborn strengths and disadvantages which play a bigger role than most appreciate. And there are moves that back up your playing all the way through which you may not learn at the beginning but need to do to progress to a higher level. I've never seen the "perfect" player in this or other sports. Even Roger Federer is not perfect (forehand volley and approach shot decisions are not always as good as the rest of his game). But he's good enough to be in the minds of some, the best ever. The top performers do MOST of the "right" things MOST of the time. And sometimes they just do what works best in the situation. Sometimes you hear the words "lucky shot", my answer to that is always: "the more I practice, the luckier I get". As Chas said, it's nothing to fret about when you're in an in between phase.... it's all part of getting better. In one of Neil's videos he talks about mastering a song and it's all about being able to do more and better and maybe different but perfect doesn't come into it. You are never "finished" in your learning, just advancing and expanding to become the best you can be.
And that is (should be) fun (if you just ignore the "hard work" bits a little) .

[1robekert]

Andy,
I think you made the right move. Change and progress with the correct hand position will come swiftly. I was never able to do the baseball grip, my hands are wide but fingers are shorter. I started with the classical hand position. What I did not start with was Neil's G Chord fingering. Took some time but now it is my default fingering. The A Chord fingering that is a different story. There is just not enough room on the 2nd fret for three fingers. I have always used one finger to do the A Chord.
Rob

[tovo]

This is a great thread. I have a few things to correct, interesting to read the comments about not going overboard. I don't have a death grip with my left hand, there's some clear space between the neck and my hand, but I often see my thumb sticking up straight and well above the line of the neck. Is that a bad thing? If so why? I understand a death grip is bad and why it is bad, but seems there's a lot of folks who think if the thumb can be seen it's an incorrect position? Maybe, I don't know but I can't (presently) understand why that's a big deal.

The other one is the pinkie anchor. I have determined that I will give it up but not easy. Thing is I really want to be technically sound as well as sound good. Not perfect, just sound.

[AndyT]

I don't have to be perfect as long as everyone else thinks I am. LOL! Great Tovo!
Like so many other things, it just comes down to practice. The more I practice, the quicker it will get fixed.

[wrench]

tovo wrote:

This is a great thread. I have a few things to correct, interesting to read the comments about not going overboard. I don't have a death grip with my left hand, there's some clear space between the neck and my hand, but I often see my thumb sticking up straight and well above the line of the neck. Is that a bad thing? If so why? I understand a death grip is bad and why it is bad, but seems there's a lot of folks who think if the thumb can be seen it's an incorrect position? Maybe, I don't know but I can't (presently) understand why that's a big deal.

The other one is the pinkie anchor. I have determined that I will give it up but not easy. Thing is I really want to be technically sound as well as sound good. Not perfect, just sound.

tovo,

I don't think the thumb being visible is necessarily wrong, especially if you have a long thumb. What the top half of the thumb is doing, however, is real important.

I offered the following observations on thumb position to other TG members. I'm not an expert, but I find it to be very accurate for me.

I'm not so gifted, and that means I must use good hand position all the time, and for me that means some discipline on the thumb position. Try to keep your thumb vertical on the neck, and keep the hinge of your thumb in contact with the center of the neck. Apply force through the hinge, never through the top of your thumb. If you apply force through the top your thumb, you do not apply force evenly through your fingers, and you can't let go of the neck to change positions. In short, keep the top half of your thumb off the neck, and keep your thumb vertical. Also, on barre chords, align the thumb with your index finger to apply the force most efficiently where it needs to be - at the barre-ing finger.

wrench

[tovo]

wrench wrote:

tovo,

I don't think the thumb being visible is necessarily wrong, especially if you have a long thumb. What the top half of the thumb is doing, however, is real important.

I offered the following observations on thumb position to other TG members. I'm not an expert, but I find it to be very accurate for me.

I'm not so gifted, and that means I must use good hand position all the time, and for me that means some discipline on the thumb position. Try to keep your thumb vertical on the neck, and keep the hinge of your thumb in contact with the center of the neck. Apply force through the hinge, never through the top of your thumb. If you apply force through the top your thumb, you do not apply force evenly through your fingers, and you can't let go of the neck to change positions. In short, keep the top half of your thumb off the neck, and keep your thumb vertical. Also, on barre chords, align the thumb with your index finger to apply the force most efficiently where it needs to be - at the barre-ing finger.

wrench

Thank's wrench that's helpful. Definately not applying pressure with the top of the thumb so that's good. Doesn't always stay vertical though, something I can work on.