Because of him I'm actually learning to play without the baseball bat grip! I stopped practicing everything except basic chords (including F and Bm) with the most correct left hand position I can possibly get.
Now, I'm at a stage where I actually can't play anything at all. My hand rebels no matter what position I'm in and I refuse to go back to my old grip. So suddenly I went from a intermediate beginner to a just picked the thing up beginner.
Totally frustrating.
Neil is ...
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Music Junkie
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AndyT wrote:
I am still struggling fiercely with using Neil's version of a G chord. I have used the four finger version for so long (because it easily leads to a D chord) that trying to use my pinkie, ring and middle fingers just kicks my tail....
PERSEVERANCE my friend!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well Andy, at least you are working toward a better day..... I am having a very difficult time with my grip, and have been unable, up to this point, to correct it. I admire the fact that you are sticking with it. You know it will get there, but patience will certainly be your best friend until it does.Because of him I'm actually learning to play without the baseball bat grip! I stopped practicing everything except basic chords (including F and Bm) with the most correct left hand position I can possibly get.
Now, I'm at a stage where I actually can't play anything at all. My hand rebels no matter what position I'm in and I refuse to go back to my old grip. So suddenly I went from a intermediate beginner to a just picked the thing up beginner.
Totally frustrating.
I am still struggling fiercely with using Neil's version of a G chord. I have used the four finger version for so long (because it easily leads to a D chord) that trying to use my pinkie, ring and middle fingers just kicks my tail....
PERSEVERANCE my friend!!!!!!!!!!!!
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neverfoundthetime
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- Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2009 2:14 pm
- Status: Offline
Andy & MJ: Sounds like you have done all the hard work on those changes. Flow is waiting for you just around the corner...... as long as you know it's there you'll keep on. This time next week, you'll be able to do more Andy. In a couple of weeks it will look even better. Keep going!
If that doesn't work I could lend you my mother's 1950's button crusher (to wring the washing dry) for your left hand......
:woohoo:
If that doesn't work I could lend you my mother's 1950's button crusher (to wring the washing dry) for your left hand......
:woohoo:I am also struggling with the thumb issue. I have decided to do it gradually rather than cold turkey. I lower my thumb a bit everytime I play. However that C chord is so difficult since I do not have the comfort of my palm resting on the back of the fretboard to lay the fingers.
Oh well, eventually....
Marc
Oh well, eventually....
Marc
Andy, I think you are taking this hand position thing too far. Your hand will go to many positions depending on what chords or fingerings you are playing. I'm not suggestiong you go from Neil's postion to a baseball grip and back but there will be times when your hand postion will rotate down a little bit.
I'm working on keeping my hand cupped so that I fret the notes more with my fingertips to get cleaner notes. But I haven't heard Neil say you can't change that classic cupped grip as you play. I think he wants us to use his grip on chords like G and C and all the barres and frankly there aren't many chords that require a baseball grip. F may be the only exception and even then you don't need your thumb over the top.
Don't reinvent the wheel! Make modest changes so you don't go backwards and get too discouraged. There are many, many very outstanding guitarists who don't use perfect hand position!!
Cheers! :cheer:
I'm working on keeping my hand cupped so that I fret the notes more with my fingertips to get cleaner notes. But I haven't heard Neil say you can't change that classic cupped grip as you play. I think he wants us to use his grip on chords like G and C and all the barres and frankly there aren't many chords that require a baseball grip. F may be the only exception and even then you don't need your thumb over the top.
Don't reinvent the wheel! Make modest changes so you don't go backwards and get too discouraged. There are many, many very outstanding guitarists who don't use perfect hand position!!
Cheers! :cheer:
Yea Phil Emmanuel will say Tommy only really got good in his playing when his thumb came over the top and joined in. Everybody told them no no don't do that.
But that is also kind of like saying Jordon only got good at dunking when he could launch past the free throw line. For most mortals it just works differently.
But that is also kind of like saying Jordon only got good at dunking when he could launch past the free throw line. For most mortals it just works differently.
yes I agree that it's best not to take this left hand position thing too far.
Look at how many good guitarists you see who have bad left hand posistion.
It's worth remembering what the disadvantages of the baseball bat grip are.
As I understand it, the two disadvantages are that it restricts the stretching ability of the hand and it requires a lot of left hand movement when going from the baseball grip to doing bar chords.
With that in mind I have been trying to improve my left hand position when playing a chord which is leading into a bar chord. This makes the change a bit easier.
I think there are a couple of advantages to the baseball grip as well. Firstly you can play notes on the sixth string with your thumb.
Also you can mute the sixth sring with your thumb. I find this an essential technique when strumming chords where you don't want to play the sixth string.
Look at how many good guitarists you see who have bad left hand posistion.
It's worth remembering what the disadvantages of the baseball bat grip are.
As I understand it, the two disadvantages are that it restricts the stretching ability of the hand and it requires a lot of left hand movement when going from the baseball grip to doing bar chords.
With that in mind I have been trying to improve my left hand position when playing a chord which is leading into a bar chord. This makes the change a bit easier.
I think there are a couple of advantages to the baseball grip as well. Firstly you can play notes on the sixth string with your thumb.
Also you can mute the sixth sring with your thumb. I find this an essential technique when strumming chords where you don't want to play the sixth string.
In my humble opinion, the left hand baseball grip is something to be conscious of but not to fret over (pardon the pun). If you watch closely even Neils thumb creeps up the top of the neck, maybe not gripping and coming over but its not static. When Neils thumb comes up its because he is rotating his entire cupped hand and the thumb moves relative to the fingers and generally opposite them, not a vice like grip but a moveable grip. I think people are becoming fixated with locking the thumb behind the neck in the middle and thus giving themselves other problems. The hand is mobile and rotates! but the thumb does not hook over the top and lock in either.
Music Junkie wrote:
I resisted Neil's G at first on the grounds that my fairly short fingers failed to arch sufficiently to reach the 5th and 6th strings cleanly. I then noticed that Neil said in one of his videos to finger the 5th and 6th strings first, then the 1st string. Worked.
wrench
MJ,AndyT wrote:Well Andy, at least you are working toward a better day..... I am having a very difficult time with my grip, and have been unable, up to this point, to correct it. I admire the fact that you are sticking with it. You know it will get there, but patience will certainly be your best friend until it does.Because of him I'm actually learning to play without the baseball bat grip! I stopped practicing everything except basic chords (including F and Bm) with the most correct left hand position I can possibly get.
Now, I'm at a stage where I actually can't play anything at all. My hand rebels no matter what position I'm in and I refuse to go back to my old grip. So suddenly I went from a intermediate beginner to a just picked the thing up beginner.
Totally frustrating.
I am still struggling fiercely with using Neil's version of a G chord. I have used the four finger version for so long (because it easily leads to a D chord) that trying to use my pinkie, ring and middle fingers just kicks my tail....
PERSEVERANCE my friend!!!!!!!!!!!!
I resisted Neil's G at first on the grounds that my fairly short fingers failed to arch sufficiently to reach the 5th and 6th strings cleanly. I then noticed that Neil said in one of his videos to finger the 5th and 6th strings first, then the 1st string. Worked.
wrench
BigBear wrote:
I agree with Bear that hand position can't be perfect all the time, but I think your hand position needs to follow the fundamentals all the time. I'd like to elaborate a little, and I invite Chris to comment on this as well, given his coaching experience.
Andy, as a former pro athlete, you certainly heard many times the comment that "you make that look so easy!" I heard it a billion times as a pro bowler, and they were all absolutely right. It was no accident that my techniques were simplified, and I executed them flawlessly - because they were simple. By simplified, I mean that I identified the fundamentals of what I needed to do, and developed the most efficient and motion-economic methods to achieve mechanically perfect execution.
So, applying this to guitar, list the fundamentals of hand position, and figure out the easiest physical moves to achieve that hand position. The key to success with this is simple - don't do anything you don't need to do. If anything you do does not support a fundamental, it is wrong and take it out of your game. It is simple, you can do this, and you can make it look easy.
If you feel like you have regressed somewhat, I think that's good. It's a perfect time for new game - build a good, simple one. Identify exactly what you need to do with your hand position, then figure out how to get to those positions efficiently, and don't even think about what you know to be wrong. I know you have some hand problems; this is also a good time to figure out how any special features in your hand can become assets to your playing technique.
wrench
Hey Guys,Andy, I think you are taking this hand position thing too far. Your hand will go to many positions depending on what chords or fingerings you are playing. I'm not suggestiong you go from Neil's postion to a baseball grip and back but there will be times when your hand postion will rotate down a little bit.
I'm working on keeping my hand cupped so that I fret the notes more with my fingertips to get cleaner notes. But I haven't heard Neil say you can't change that classic cupped grip as you play. I think he wants us to use his grip on chords like G and C and all the barres and frankly there aren't many chords that require a baseball grip. F may be the only exception and even then you don't need your thumb over the top.
Don't reinvent the wheel! Make modest changes so you don't go backwards and get too discouraged. There are many, many very outstanding guitarists who don't use perfect hand position!!
Cheers! :cheer:
I agree with Bear that hand position can't be perfect all the time, but I think your hand position needs to follow the fundamentals all the time. I'd like to elaborate a little, and I invite Chris to comment on this as well, given his coaching experience.
Andy, as a former pro athlete, you certainly heard many times the comment that "you make that look so easy!" I heard it a billion times as a pro bowler, and they were all absolutely right. It was no accident that my techniques were simplified, and I executed them flawlessly - because they were simple. By simplified, I mean that I identified the fundamentals of what I needed to do, and developed the most efficient and motion-economic methods to achieve mechanically perfect execution.
So, applying this to guitar, list the fundamentals of hand position, and figure out the easiest physical moves to achieve that hand position. The key to success with this is simple - don't do anything you don't need to do. If anything you do does not support a fundamental, it is wrong and take it out of your game. It is simple, you can do this, and you can make it look easy.
If you feel like you have regressed somewhat, I think that's good. It's a perfect time for new game - build a good, simple one. Identify exactly what you need to do with your hand position, then figure out how to get to those positions efficiently, and don't even think about what you know to be wrong. I know you have some hand problems; this is also a good time to figure out how any special features in your hand can become assets to your playing technique.
wrench