What exactly is T.A.R.G.E.T.?

Feel free to get outside the box here.
the_muffin_man
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Sun Sep 26, 2010 4:32 pm

So far, all the descriptions have been good, and i'm currently looking at students playing. I didnt mean to single out just tovo. sorry guys!
Geoff


ceaser67
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Sun Sep 26, 2010 4:34 pm

Hi geoff,

Welcome to TG,Tommy here from Scotland,(great subject to get you going),for me TARGET is hours upon hours of excellent guitat teaching,there are a couple of ways to look at it,i know a few friends that are members of excellent gyms with all mode cons available and ive laughed at the complaints about there monthly payments and how they feel no value for money,for them i understand it, as i tell them YOURE NEVER _UCKING THERE THATS WHY THERS NO VALUE,
its a bit like TARGET,if you want VALUE for youre money then you look for the tools needed and for learning guitar this is without a shadow the place to be,but like anything you need to put in the hours to achieve youre goals whatever they be,i would challenge any member that says they could keep up with all the lessons on TARGET i certainly cant but i know the stages of my guitar playing,and this site provides me with the rest,neil is an excellent teacher in his own right and has a loyal group of students that appreciate what he does for us,ive been here for about 7 months and i certainly couldnt consider leaving this site,last but not least its a great community here,if you cant get the help you need from one of the students you will certainly be shown the right direction,

Good Luck
Tommy


tovo
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Sun Sep 26, 2010 5:22 pm

the_muffin_man wrote:
Also, why don't the members ever post a lesson on a song requested? Wouldn't that expand, even further the knowledge base of this particular type of learning vessel? I mean, after all, "we all live in a yellow submarine."
Geoff this is pretty simple to answer I think. In a way, members do post lessons. We post the tunes we are working on and everyone gets to comment. I have learned more from study of comments on videos (mine and others) than I can describe. Additionally, Neil often reviews the video personally, and the value to be got from that is also tremendous.

As far as students posting lessons, that can be a tricky slope to navigate. Even if an individual is a great player, doesn't make them a good teacher. Lessons with poor technique tips/wrong fingerings etc might do more harm than good. I guess you might counter that the rest of the membership could sort that out, but seems like a lot of room for bad practice in such an approach. When I watch Neil's lessons, I know I am getting advice from someone who knows his stuff, and knows how to teach it.


the_muffin_man
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Sun Sep 26, 2010 6:31 pm

I understand the dynamic of great players being poor teachers. But we can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. I believe also that playing certain chords in a particular fashion is unecessary in the regard that let's say, for example: Neil figers a G chord with his 2nd,3rd, and 4th fingers. Mel Bay taught me to use my 1st 2nd and 3rd fingers, respectively. While neither is wrong, per se, its a matter of opinion and comfort. But I digress.
I'm not being judgemental here, I'm being frugal. I'd rather make an informed decision, yunno? Guess I'm a geek when it comes to this sort of thing.

I think it's tremendous that Neil reviews the videos personally and offers constructive criticism. How else would we get better if we thought we were playing everything perfectly? I think also that while Neil is a great player, and teacher, even he may be able to learn something from a member/student. Or, maybe he could articulate a nuance in someone elses playing that would benefit everyone whether, the nuance be good or bad. Let's face it, it's impossible to know everything there is to know about the guitar and believing that you do is really closed-minded and obtuse.
Not to be argumentative, who determines what poor technique is if the result gets the desired effect? If you've arrived at your destination, even though you've chosen a different road, how is that wrong? If the ends are justified by the means, and all bases have been covered by either left or right foot, what's the difference?


Chasplaya
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Sun Sep 26, 2010 6:42 pm

Hi Geoff Welcome to TG from Chas a Scot in New Zealand. I have been here from almost the beginning and have no intention of leaving anytime soon.

A lot of very positive comments have been made In response to your query and I endorse them all. Whilst it would appear your goals seem to center around Electric guitar and this is predominantly an Acoustic site , the point oft overlooked is that many of the skills techniques taught here are transferable from acoustic to electric (not sure about pinch harmonics though) As for members posting lessons as Tony mentioned this could have potential for bad practice to creep in although it wouldn't be long before someone jumps in and corrects things. Laws of learning need to be followed and First learned best remembered applies in this case. However, some members post songs not in the programme to illustrate transfer of learning, at least a couple on electric, these could be regarded as mini lessons in there own way.

In a way members already contribute to lessons by posting their endeavours for others to provide feedback, the feedback received from members and increasingly Neil himself are like mini lessons in themselves.

Value for money... well I'm Scottish so if it wasnae good value I widnae be here, simple as that. I have yet to find better value for my NZ dollar. Have I improved? most definitely, can I learn more? again most definitely; the balance of what I have to / need to learn on this site will take me literally years to get through.


Chasplaya
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Sun Sep 26, 2010 6:52 pm

the_muffin_man wrote:
I understand the dynamic of great players being poor teachers. But we can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. I believe also that playing certain chords in a particular fashion is unecessary in the regard that let's say, for example: Neil figers a G chord with his 2nd,3rd, and 4th fingers. Mel Bay taught me to use my 1st 2nd and 3rd fingers, respectively. While neither is wrong, per se, its a matter of opinion and comfort. But I digress.
I'm not being judgemental here, I'm being frugal. I'd rather make an informed decision, yunno? Guess I'm a geek when it comes to this sort of thing.

I think it's tremendous that Neil reviews the videos personally and offers constructive criticism. How else would we get better if we thought we were playing everything perfectly? I think also that while Neil is a great player, and teacher, even he may be able to learn something from a member/student. Or, maybe he could articulate a nuance in someone elses playing that would benefit everyone whether, the nuance be good or bad. Let's face it, it's impossible to know everything there is to know about the guitar and believing that you do is really closed-minded and obtuse.
Not to be argumentative, who determines what poor technique is if the result gets the desired effect? If you've arrived at your destination, even though you've chosen a different road, how is that wrong? If the ends are justified by the means, and all bases have been covered by either left or right foot, what's the difference?

I think once you have been around awhile you will discover that whilst Neil has preferences for certain fingerings he does use alternate fingerings if they help the transition to the next chord, what he advocates is yes have a preference but be prepared to change if the tune dictates where you need to go next. And again once you've been around a bit longer you would discover Neil does articulate nuances from members playing in the many reviews he has done or he will go over an aspect on the Live shows or simply in the weekly news post.

Many of your thoughts/suggestions have already been considered here but only through time will you see that. I recommend, jump in, buy your subscription and spend a decent tine checking out whats on offer, once you've done that you will be better placed to offer advice/suggestions. And from previous posts the owners of this site certainly welcome constructive advice if framed positively.


the_muffin_man
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Sun Sep 26, 2010 6:56 pm

A Kiwi/Scot? Wow! diverse! Im a polock that plays bagpipes..go figure! Thanks for the information, Chas.
My goals aren't entirely centered on electric guitar, I just think there's a wealth of knowledge associated with that particular instrument that shouldn't, nay CAN'T be overlooked. Once again, I don't want to pigeon-hole myself into one particular type of playing. I am currently working on Black Water by Pat Simmons. Ive got the first bit down very well and up to speed, now comes the trickier parts. That song is tremendously difficult for someone who has no figerstyle training or lessons in his back pocket. But I'm progressing very very well. I also wouldnt be playing that on my Fender Strat. I'm almost convinced here....


AcousticAl
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Sun Sep 26, 2010 9:27 pm

I've thought a bit about this, and at the risk of sounding out there... TARGET is what you need it to be. It helps you realize many (or any) goal you have relating to playing guitar.

A few of my goals that Target has helped me with so far.
-Playing with more confidence
-Singing while playing guitar
-Not being a 'bits & pieces' player
-Expanding my repertoire

And I haven't even touched on the acoustic genius series- or blues- or rhythm guitarist- or theory etc. I'm just having fun playing songs and getting feedback from the community and Neil.

Target is also supportive. I don't know if you've ever put a work in progress song online anywhere and asked what people think-- but it can get ugly in cyberspace. TG and Target in particular is a close, supportive community that really helps each other out. We all learn from each others' videos.

Cheers from Toronto!


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TGNeil
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Sun Sep 26, 2010 9:51 pm

Hi Gang,

I saw this thread developing and thought I might jump in, especially being trained in the Mel Bay Method. Most methods do not teach you to think on your own about the best solution to each situation. I try to bring my students to come to their own conclusion about the best solution for them with regard to any situation.

I certainly appreciate the comments about this not being a tab or transcription site. There are plenty of those that can provide guidance for many students out there. The bigger picture is much bigger, and when you start suspecting that that world exists you are well on your way to becoming a complete (compleat?) musician.

Neil


Hydroman52
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Sun Sep 26, 2010 11:10 pm

Hey Goeff,

Sorry, no Frank Zappa lessons here. I'm about as frugal as anyone could be when it comes to where I plant my hard earned dollars. What convinced me to sign up for TARGET is the program has a 30-day money back thing. All you have to do is pop the twenty-some dollars for a month of the subscription, slide in, and look around. If you don't find what you are looking for or don't like what you see, you can ask for your money back and say adios. Can't beat that deal with a club. Take the plunge . . . you'll never know until you give it a try. These guys will give you your money back with no hassles if you ask for it. So there really is no risk to you except for a little bit of your time to evaluate.

Hope you find something that interests you here.

Hydroman52


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