You have funny way to get your requests accepted. Insults is definitely a wise choice.You are lucky you can put the chords in the correct place Andy. I cant do that. That is why I wanted neil to do it.
I dont think he cares enough to go the extra mile for begginners like me.
I think he just wants to keep the more advanced people happy.
Dancer
Easy for me
thedancer wrote:
I really resent this, you sound like a spoiled kid who doesn't get his way...
Then again I'm not surprised since your tone sounded demanding to begin with 'Neil should do this, I want Neil to do that, MORE BOXES, Neil should teach properly, Neil is wrong'...
Neil has answered you Dancer, acting as a spoiled child is not going to help. Instead you could have asked for help and Andy (and I would have as well, since i have hundreds of those charts that you're looking for) even wants to give it to you. Just stop insulting Neil here..
thedancer wrote:
Then again I'm not surprised since your tone sounded demanding to begin with 'Neil should do this, I want Neil to do that, MORE BOXES, Neil should teach properly, Neil is wrong'...
Neil has answered you Dancer, acting as a spoiled child is not going to help. Instead you could have asked for help and Andy (and I would have as well, since i have hundreds of those charts that you're looking for) even wants to give it to you. Just stop insulting Neil here..
thedancer wrote:
You are lucky you can put the chords in the correct place Andy. I cant do that. That is why I wanted neil to do it.
I dont think he cares enough to go the extra mile for begginners like me.
I think he just wants to keep the more advanced people happy.
Dancer
thedancer wrote:
I think you had a reasonable, coherent request going -- until you fancied yourself capable of reading people's minds. Whatever good-will you may have established with your original request, you blew with the above exercise in silliness.
I dont think he cares enough to go the extra mile for begginners like me.
I think he just wants to keep the more advanced people happy.
Dancer
thedancer wrote:
As a total beginner, I had exactly the same issue with the chord diagrams. It actually took a long time for me to understand that if I had the exact diagrams to work with, I never would have asked the questions that led me to learn more theory. Soon thereafter, and like other posters in this thread, I started making notes on charts to play songs the way I wanted them to sound; not like someone else wanted the song to sound. I think it is precisely Neil going the extra mile for his students to NOT give them the easy way out. This may have cost Neil a satisfied customer or two, but he has produced many hundreds or thousands of better musicians. As for keeping more advanced people happy, how do you think some of those advanced people became advanced? It wasn't by looking at chord diagrams. And how many of those advanced people were not advanced when they started learning from Neil? I know for a fact there are some.
If exposed to explicit chord diagrams, I think one would go from a beginner who could play zero songs to a beginner who could play two hundred songs. But learning Neil's way, one can not only play nearly any song, but play it a multitude of ways, as well as modifying any song and writing new ones. Thousands of them. Just like Neil said.
So if your are not happy with the material, that's your prerogative. But remember, this is not a TAB site, this is music school. And to accuse Neil of indifference to beginners? Well, you should reconsider that opinion remembering that TG is music school, because the notion that Neil Hogan does not care about his beginner students is one I simply don't believe. I would have to think you may have reached that conclusion by looking only at the song material and evaluating TG as a TAB site. Sit down for about forty or so hours and watch the entire Acoustic Genius series, and it will become much more clear to you what TG and Neil are really about.
wrench
Dancer, I think your disagreement with Neil's methods have led you to make some real bad assumptions about Neil, and I can't let that go any further without sharing with you some food for thought.I dont think he cares enough to go the extra mile for begginners like me.
I think he just wants to keep the more advanced people happy.
Dancer
As a total beginner, I had exactly the same issue with the chord diagrams. It actually took a long time for me to understand that if I had the exact diagrams to work with, I never would have asked the questions that led me to learn more theory. Soon thereafter, and like other posters in this thread, I started making notes on charts to play songs the way I wanted them to sound; not like someone else wanted the song to sound. I think it is precisely Neil going the extra mile for his students to NOT give them the easy way out. This may have cost Neil a satisfied customer or two, but he has produced many hundreds or thousands of better musicians. As for keeping more advanced people happy, how do you think some of those advanced people became advanced? It wasn't by looking at chord diagrams. And how many of those advanced people were not advanced when they started learning from Neil? I know for a fact there are some.
If exposed to explicit chord diagrams, I think one would go from a beginner who could play zero songs to a beginner who could play two hundred songs. But learning Neil's way, one can not only play nearly any song, but play it a multitude of ways, as well as modifying any song and writing new ones. Thousands of them. Just like Neil said.
So if your are not happy with the material, that's your prerogative. But remember, this is not a TAB site, this is music school. And to accuse Neil of indifference to beginners? Well, you should reconsider that opinion remembering that TG is music school, because the notion that Neil Hogan does not care about his beginner students is one I simply don't believe. I would have to think you may have reached that conclusion by looking only at the song material and evaluating TG as a TAB site. Sit down for about forty or so hours and watch the entire Acoustic Genius series, and it will become much more clear to you what TG and Neil are really about.
wrench
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neverfoundthetime
- Posts: 48
- Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2009 2:14 pm
- Status: Offline
Oopps, train wreck.
I learned all my songs the way you suggest Dancer. I definitely needed the chords noted or diagrammed above the lyrics. It did make it harder to learn the structure of the song but all in all it was a good visual way for me to get off the mark on any song. I don't think Neil's method is aimed at more advanced players at all but he does want to take us to the highest possible level of whatever level we are at. So it is challenging right from the get go but the lessons are also remarkably lucid.
If you take a moment to reflect on the forum posts and the vibe in the community here, you'll have to admit, people do care and at the top of the list you have to place Neil and his methods.
I learned all my songs the way you suggest Dancer. I definitely needed the chords noted or diagrammed above the lyrics. It did make it harder to learn the structure of the song but all in all it was a good visual way for me to get off the mark on any song. I don't think Neil's method is aimed at more advanced players at all but he does want to take us to the highest possible level of whatever level we are at. So it is challenging right from the get go but the lessons are also remarkably lucid.
If you take a moment to reflect on the forum posts and the vibe in the community here, you'll have to admit, people do care and at the top of the list you have to place Neil and his methods.
Denisg I still have a reasonable request. However, you are completely wrong on the mind reading thing. I don't even know who's mind, you think I'm reading. And as for goodwill towards all men. If you have no more for me then so be it.
nesh . It would've been lovely on hearing my request to neil for you to offer your helpl. But alas the your offer never came.
Lavalee. My comments were certainly not meant as insults. They are merely as I see the situation. If neil wanted to go the extra mile or even advise me that other TG members could help in this situation. Then the situation could have been resolved instantly.
wrench. You are right on many things. I know Neil does care about his beginners and all levels. That was me just getting out of my pram .
Happy playing
Dancer
nesh . It would've been lovely on hearing my request to neil for you to offer your helpl. But alas the your offer never came.
Lavalee. My comments were certainly not meant as insults. They are merely as I see the situation. If neil wanted to go the extra mile or even advise me that other TG members could help in this situation. Then the situation could have been resolved instantly.
wrench. You are right on many things. I know Neil does care about his beginners and all levels. That was me just getting out of my pram .
Happy playing
Dancer
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Music Junkie
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:17 am
- Status: Offline
Just another note to add to my earlier post.....
I remember a comment made by Neil some time ago and one that has been made by others, including my instructor. Paraphrasing here, but it was along the lines of: "you need to have the music down almost to a subconscious level and then singing while playing will start to become easier". Something like that anyway.... :unsure:
I have found that once you get the rhythm and chord progressions down, it does make singing along much easier. EVERYONE just sees things different though. Some songs The lyrics are so easy for me to remember, that when the playing get s there, it is done. Others, I need to reference the words more often and it can be a bit more cumbersome. I think, personally, that having the structure down is a better way to go for ME. Maybe not for others.... B)
I do believe that if you take the chord structure that Neil gives us with the songs, copy and paste the lyrics from a lyric site on the net and then just place the chords over the words, that you can get what you are looking for rather easily. Knowing that there are 4 beats of this chord, or 2 beats of that chord makes it so much easier to place the chords in the right place anyway. I'll step out on a limb here and say that it would probably be a great exercise for you to do this on some songs that you want done. It would probably really help pull all of it together for you....
MJ
I remember a comment made by Neil some time ago and one that has been made by others, including my instructor. Paraphrasing here, but it was along the lines of: "you need to have the music down almost to a subconscious level and then singing while playing will start to become easier". Something like that anyway.... :unsure:
I have found that once you get the rhythm and chord progressions down, it does make singing along much easier. EVERYONE just sees things different though. Some songs The lyrics are so easy for me to remember, that when the playing get s there, it is done. Others, I need to reference the words more often and it can be a bit more cumbersome. I think, personally, that having the structure down is a better way to go for ME. Maybe not for others.... B)
I do believe that if you take the chord structure that Neil gives us with the songs, copy and paste the lyrics from a lyric site on the net and then just place the chords over the words, that you can get what you are looking for rather easily. Knowing that there are 4 beats of this chord, or 2 beats of that chord makes it so much easier to place the chords in the right place anyway. I'll step out on a limb here and say that it would probably be a great exercise for you to do this on some songs that you want done. It would probably really help pull all of it together for you....
MJ
dancer,
We have all experienced frustrations with learning the guitar at various points. But you might want to keep in
mind a couple of things...
1.) There are no shotcuts and it is indeed hard work. We've all been there. You have to work towards getting
the: callouses, the mental memory it takes to memorize the chords, & the muscle memory required to get to
where you need to be on the fretboard. There are many peaks and valleys on the journey. Be prepared to
have to do some serious thinking and grunt work. That is just the way it is.
2.) If Neil Hogan suggests something guitar-wise there is a darn good reason he suggested it. As a musician he
is among the very best in the world. As a teacher, which is no- less a challenging discipline...he is second to
none. As a human being, I would say all of that and more. I'm not blowin' smoke. Most of us here, truly feel
this way about Neil. If I were you, I might consider that fact, the next time I make broad sweeping
generalizations about the man's character.
We have all experienced frustrations with learning the guitar at various points. But you might want to keep in
mind a couple of things...
1.) There are no shotcuts and it is indeed hard work. We've all been there. You have to work towards getting
the: callouses, the mental memory it takes to memorize the chords, & the muscle memory required to get to
where you need to be on the fretboard. There are many peaks and valleys on the journey. Be prepared to
have to do some serious thinking and grunt work. That is just the way it is.
2.) If Neil Hogan suggests something guitar-wise there is a darn good reason he suggested it. As a musician he
is among the very best in the world. As a teacher, which is no- less a challenging discipline...he is second to
none. As a human being, I would say all of that and more. I'm not blowin' smoke. Most of us here, truly feel
this way about Neil. If I were you, I might consider that fact, the next time I make broad sweeping
generalizations about the man's character.
I think we all have that kind of charts with the chords above the lyric and we all downloaded tons of it on the sites were you can get them,,,,but we all know there are many totally wrong written charts(i never knewed that) and being here for a while i started to make my own charts and when there is for example a G chord in there i know how to grip it 'cos i followed Neil lesson,, i am not so far to do all songs by myself but know i am on the improving way....
It's a real shame that your frustration has led you to write some nasty stuff. You are insulting not only Neil but some really nice people who have never hesitated to "go the extra mile" as you put it for other people. Honestly, you sound like you are feeling a bit sorry for yourself.
There are a lot of people on this site who all have their own learning preferences. To expect Neil to cater to every person's individual needs is not realistic. Neil did you the courtesy of replying and explaining why he separates words and chords. You can make suggestions but it doesn't follow that Neil "doesn't care about beginners" because he doesn't take up your suggestion.
I hope you get it together and continue to play and improve I really do. If you want help then ask in a spirit of friendship and you will get help. Please don't be nasty.
There are a lot of people on this site who all have their own learning preferences. To expect Neil to cater to every person's individual needs is not realistic. Neil did you the courtesy of replying and explaining why he separates words and chords. You can make suggestions but it doesn't follow that Neil "doesn't care about beginners" because he doesn't take up your suggestion.
I hope you get it together and continue to play and improve I really do. If you want help then ask in a spirit of friendship and you will get help. Please don't be nasty.