Guinevere

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TGMatt
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Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:00 pm

Hey all!!
I don't know if i'm going nuts or what but i've been working on Guinevere by Crosby, Stills, And Nash. I'm really having alot of trouble with the 11th measure, Barring on the 3rd fret or any fret for that matter. I can't get all the strings to play, some of them do but the others are just muffled by my finger. I don't know if my finger is postioned wrong or what. I looked on you tube at a few videos and they're saying that you don't need a whole lot of strength, you just need to have your finger positioned correctly. Anyone have any tips??????


millponddave
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Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:18 pm

Bobby,
Don't worry. Barre chords drive everyone nuts at first. Just keep trying. Finger placement is important. Try to roll your finger that is doing the barre to the side a little bit so that the creases in your finger don't cause you problems. Keep at it and you will get it down. I'm sure that others here will weigh in with advice as well. (probably better than mine.)

Dave


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daryl
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Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:28 pm

What kind of guitar are you using?

How is the action?

If the action is too high, you might benefit by tuning down a whole step (to lessen the tension on the strings) while you develop your barre chords.

You could also try using a capo on the 2nd or 3rd fret (to help with the action) while you develop you barre chords.

You could change to a lighter gauge string maybe.


thereshopeyet
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Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:00 pm

thanks for the input!! Yeah the A string is tuned up to a B which makes it more difficult because of the tension. I played a while ago and didn't have a problem with bar chords but i was playing every day. I just started really playing again and it's very frustrating when i know i did it before and now i have to work back up to that. Guinevere probably wasn't the best song to start playing after not really playing for 7 years.


suziko
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Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:15 pm

I'd also recommend trying to drop your wrist more. I find that when I'm having a hard time with barres (with notes being muffled), I get better sound the more I drop my wrist, probably because it allows me to have a straighter barre. Anyway, it's worth a shot!

Suzi


BigBear
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Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:28 pm

Bobby- All great advice. Also, remember to barre with the left side/edge of your index finger (if you are looking at your palm) and not the meaty part. It takes about three times the pressure to barre with the soft part of your finger versus the much harder edge.

Also, make sure your thumb is firmly planted on the middle of the back of the neck. Don't let your thumb creep up.

Bottom line, tough song if barre chords still give you trouble but I admire your courage for taking it on.

Best of luck! :cheer:


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neverfoundthetime
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Tue Sep 27, 2011 4:34 am

Bobby, this is a mile stone we all have stood at. To get past it you will need to grit your teeth and just practice moving to and off that chord dozens of times a day for a while and know it will come good... sooner or later.


wrench
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Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:48 am

bobby mcgee wrote:
Hey all!!
I don't know if i'm going nuts or what but i've been working on Guinevere by Crosby, Stills, And Nash. I'm really having alot of trouble with the 11th measure, Barring on the 3rd fret or any fret for that matter. I can't get all the strings to play, some of them do but the others are just muffled by my finger. I don't know if my finger is postioned wrong or what. I looked on you tube at a few videos and they're saying that you don't need a whole lot of strength, you just need to have your finger positioned correctly. Anyone have any tips??????
You have all good advice Bobby, but I have an exercise not yet mentioned that might help you develop barre chord technique. I call it "twist-lock barre chords". To play good barre chords consistently, you will need, as mentioned earlier, to determine your index finger position. You can actually determine that vertical position as you apply the twist-lock technique. You also need to callous the whole edge of your index finger, and again, the twist-lock will help you with that because you can apply much more pressure with twist-lock than with squeezing. But MOST important of all, you need to avoid injury in the pursuit of good barre chords.

Nearly everyone applies force to the index finger by squeezing the index finger and thumb together against the neck. If this doesn't produce clean notes, the natural tendency is to squeeze harder, and at that point one is in danger of injury. The twist-lock applies force without excessive squeeze, thereby minimizing the risk of injury. I also find that without the death grip squeeze, the second, third, and fourth fingers move remarkably easily and accurately to their positions. This is like magic when playing melody notes while barred.

So here's the twist-lock exercise:
1. position your hand on the neck of the guitar with the thumb vertical, extended (tip arched backward), and centered on the back of the neck, and the index finger centered over the target fret.
2. the thumb should be aligned approximately with the middle finger. the exact alignment varies with the player's anatomy, but the correct position is the most comfortable.
3. gently close the fingers against the strings, but do not squeeze, and firmly lock your hand in this position.
4. while maintaining the lock position, rotate your hand counterclockwise to apply the index finger to the strings. twist only hard enough to achieve clean notes, and note the finger rolls behind the fret.

From here you will see that very little squeeze is necessary, and wrist fatigue never comes. You will see that the side of your index finger gets pretty sore and callouses quickly. When you apply this technique for a few minutes, you will see that are able to apply incredibly high force to your barre finger without squeezing hard or straining your wrist. Because of the efficient application of high force, the action height of the guitar is nearly meaningless. I developed this technique on a brand new guitar that I had not setup yet. Both the saddle and nut were crazy high. F's were effortless with this technique, but I blistered the %*&^# out my index finger!

Your mileage may vary, and you are not required to heed any of my advice, but I am curious if it works for you.

wrench


dtaylor
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Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:56 am

Thanks to you Wrench, that's some great advice.

Dean


thereshopeyet
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Tue Sep 27, 2011 6:58 pm

Thank you every one i will take all your advise and put it to use and let you know how it works!!


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