The future of Ebony wood.

Feel free to get outside the box here.
willem
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Fri Aug 17, 2012 4:33 pm

BigBear wrote:
Chas my friend. I'm surprised at your skepticism. I think the bottom line, at least for me is, and as stewards of the earth, does it make any sense to cut down 10 Ebony trees to get one that is usable for fingerboards? That just seems insane to me.

I am confident that both Taylor and Larrivee (and many others), who make spectacularly beautiful guitars, will use their skills to incorporate these changes into their instruments. Does anyone remember when Brazilian Rosewood could no longer be cut down or traded? We thought it was the end of guitars as we know them. But the industry adapted and while Brazilian remains one of, if not the best, tone woods for guitars, we've found other more sustainable resources.

The biggest challenge to Ebony, and I'm not sure the video made a point of it, is black market trading in the wood. Criminals cut down the trees and hope they have a perfect black one. If not, they let it lay on the ground to rot. Not good.

By the way, Ebony is so dense that if you throw it in a bucket of water it will sink!!

That aint happen for a sort of wood only,,,what you think on the robbery from plants(orchids and such) and animals(snake,,frog,,lizzards) many years I tryed to breed them and create a marked so they would'nt rob the nature there but it was a fight for nothing,,even biologist robbed a whole habbitat for only the the $$$$$$..then I stopped with that and know now this kind of hobby's is almost dissapered..

Willem

There are alway's sollutions and we have to care for our earth..


millponddave
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Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:50 pm

We,and by we, I mean Human beings have got to start learning to live with our environment instead of constantly just exploiting it for financial gain. the fact that ten trees are wasted just to find one black one is appalling to me. I am so grateful that there are some companies such as Taylor that are stepping up to be responsible stewards of the land and set the example to others. I don't care what color a wood is if it preforms the way that it should. I love Martin guitars, but maybe my next one will be a Taylor !

Dave


BigBear
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Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:36 pm

millponddave wrote:
We,and by we, I mean Human beings have got to start learning to live with our environment instead of constantly just exploiting it for financial gain. the fact that ten trees are wasted just to find one black one is appalling to me. I am so grateful that there are some companies such as Taylor that are stepping up to be responsible stewards of the land and set the example to others. I don't care what color a wood is if it preforms the way that it should. I love Martin guitars, but maybe my next one will be a Taylor !

Dave
Dave- you wouldn't be disappointed, I promise!! :cheer:


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neverfoundthetime
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Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:16 am

It takes 60 - 200 years to grow an ebony tree to maturation for use... that alone makes it a very difficult or impossible prospect to "farm" it, Chas.

Ebony trees do not typically grow in groups but are found in solitary existence. This may be due to its poor ability to compete with other trees in close proximity. It takes an ebony tree between 60 and 200 years to mature into a harvest-able commodity. Ebony trees reach a maximum height of about 30 feet with a diameter of about one foot.

Read more: Ebony Tree Facts | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/about_6532827_ebony ... z23t5FMtUD


Chasplaya
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Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:26 am

neverfoundthetime wrote:
It takes 60 - 200 years to grow an ebony tree to maturation for use... that alone makes it a very difficult or impossible prospect to "farm" it, Chas.

Ebony trees do not typically grow in groups but are found in solitary existence. This may be due to its poor ability to compete with other trees in close proximity. It takes an ebony tree between 60 and 200 years to mature into a harvest-able commodity. Ebony trees reach a maximum height of about 30 feet with a diameter of about one foot.

Read more: Ebony Tree Facts | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/about_6532827_ebony ... z23t5FMtUD
Difficult yes, impossible no. There was/is a forestry company in NZ growing some rare trees, (don't know if they still in business, but they were very popular at one time) and they were selling off trees as investment, you bought and sold like stocks/shares, I'm guessing based on future value They also had fast growing pines to supplement income.


dennisg
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Sat Aug 18, 2012 11:45 am

It's easy to over-simplify and make generalizations when we're talking about something going on in third-world countries. But there are decades of harvesting history and political realities that need to be dealt with in order to solve the problem of dwindling supplies of ebony. At least Bob Taylor is tackling the problem by investing heavily in the region, doubling the salaries of the local workers who sometimes support up to 20 people in these impoverished areas, and doing everything he can to balance out the supply-versus-consumption reality that his and other guitar companies now face.

It's a fact that all guitar companies use ebony for fingerboards, bridges, bridge pins, and headstock overlays. It's also a fact that all of these guitar companies will face a severe shortage of ebony, the one wood that's ideal for all of the above-mentioned uses. How many of these companies are lifting a finger to do something about the future supplies of ebony? The answer: very few.

In the central African country of Cameroon, ebony has to be hand-carried (no trucks or animals) from the forests to the mills, a journey of about 8 kilometers. Since variegated ebony (that is, ebony with marbling or striping) fetches a price of roughly 20 percent of that of solid-black ebony, it was felt that it wasn't worth it to carry that ebony to the mills, which is why it was left to rot in the forests. That appalled Bob Taylor, and he decided to buy all the variegated ebony he could get his hands on. And to make it worth their while to carry it, he offered to pay the same price for it as he was paying for solid-black ebony. He knows that his end-customers prefer solid-black ebony, and that it's a tall order to convince them otherwise. But at least he's going to try.

It's so easy to suggest simplistic solutions when you're sitting in an air conditioned house drinking a glass of shiraz thousands of miles away and you know nothing about who owns the ebony forests or how the local government controls the use of that land. But you can learn a lot by simply reading the article about ebony in the latest issue of Wood & Steel. You can find it here: https://www.taylorguitars.com/wood-and-steel

Every now and then, we get a flame war going in this forum when someone asks about whether or not they should buy a specific brand of guitar. I never, ever participate in those wars because I believe that almost all brands of guitar, in the right hands, can produce beautiful tones. In fact, I own multiple brands of guitars: Martin, Guild, Taylor, Epiphone, and Yamaha. But I have a feeling for Taylors that I have for none of the others, and a big part of the reason is the way Bob Taylor runs his company. He's as humane a person and as good a corporate citizen as I've ever seen run a large company, and for that reason alone he gets my admiration. The fact that he also happens to make some brilliant guitars earns him my loyalty.

As I said, I have absolutely nothing against any other guitar company, and I have admiration for most of them. But if I'm in the market for a new guitar, and I test a Taylor and some other brand, all things being relatively equal, I'm going to buy a Taylor. That's how I show my support for a guy who treats his employees and vendors with utmost respect, who has delivered many of the guitar industry's most important innovations, and who actually does something about the world's supply of wood and the lives of the people who earn a meager living working with it.


familyman4
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Sat Aug 18, 2012 6:19 pm

I've stayed out of this conversation on purpose. And am still going to be brief because my friend Dennis has stated everything so well in his last post & I agree with his evaluation 100%. I had seen this video a month or two ago and surprised, and now better educated, by it's content. I also read the article in W & S for more information. For the record: I support Bob Taylor decision and appreciate his initiative in the situation!

I will let you know that I was traveling in Southern California this past week and took another tour of the Taylor factory. Just like I have 12 times before. (This place is like Disneyland to me.) I did see some of the new Ebony wood in the factory & knew immediately what it was because of the educational process that Mr. Taylor started discussing in the recent past. While in the factory, it is amazing how many manufacturing processes were started by Taylor, and now other guitar company's have adopted. Bob Taylor is a true leader of ideas & actions.

Now today, the new Taylor guitar that I had ordered for my son's Christmas gift arrived at my local Taylor distributor. My son is a U.S. Marine and I purchased him this GSmini Mahaogany so he can travel with a guitar, all over this world. It is smaller than the other guitars he has & will work very well for this purpose. Yes I know that the mini is made in their factory in Mexico. But it still carry's the Taylor name & quality that I am looking for.

I own many brands of instruments but the last several new ones that I have purchased have all been Taylor's. I think my Gibson, Fender, Takemine Martin & Guild's are missing me now so I am going to go wake them up.

God Bless people like Bob Taylor that take the initiative to make a difference.

Have a great day....
Bart


michelew
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Sun Aug 19, 2012 6:01 am

Thanks for bringing us this information. I'm glad there are people like Bob Taylor who are trying to make such a real difference.

"let's live within the truth of the forest".

So important and so relevant to so many other parts of our liVes too.

M.


Edit - since reading this thread and absorbing the info from Bob Taylor, I find myself looking at the ebony on my Larrivee and thinking "ten trees cut for every one used". That's an awful lot of beautiful trees that have been cut down for nothing (and the associated damage to the forest), a terrible amount of wasted ebony that could have been appreciated for its own beauty and unique properties and a crazy shortening of the availability of trees. It is so hard to swallow in so many ways the more I consider it.

Would we as guitar customers really have rejected variegated ebony. And if black is that important, why couldn't it have just been stained to 'improve' the colour?

I keep wondering what else I need to learn about guitars and their manufacture and in particular what should I be considering so I'm being an informed consumer.

Sustainable forestry ... yep, important for so many reasons.


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