A Theory Question
Man I am with you. This stuff makes me feel really stupid. I want to learn it so bad, but it just does not register with me. I have looked at all the websites that everyone has posted, but none really start at the beginning of how everything fits together. Neil's lessons are good and I did pick up a few things, but not enough for me to grasp a hold of. I should have paid more attention in school.
eagle670 wrote:
I would be more than happy to give any kind of instruction I can if I know what it is we are going to discuss. Music theory is way to big of a topic to approach willy-nilly.
The reason we have the 'Let's Talk Theory' board is to discuss theory and pose and answer questions related to music theory and especially how it relates to the guitar. So, please ask away.
Keep Playing
Ric
Perhaps if you guys could tell us what you do know and what your confusion is. What does start at the beginning mean (notes, intervals, chord construction, etc.)?Man I am with you. This stuff makes me feel really stupid. I want to learn it so bad, but it just does not register with me. I have looked at all the websites that everyone has posted, but none really start at the beginning of how everything fits together. Neil's lessons are good and I did pick up a few things, but not enough for me to grasp a hold of. I should have paid more attention in school.
I would be more than happy to give any kind of instruction I can if I know what it is we are going to discuss. Music theory is way to big of a topic to approach willy-nilly.
The reason we have the 'Let's Talk Theory' board is to discuss theory and pose and answer questions related to music theory and especially how it relates to the guitar. So, please ask away.
Keep Playing
Ric
I think the problem with music theory is how much is really needed? Certainly, the average guitarist doesn't need to fully understand Phrygian dominant scales in order to play the guitar!
But listening to Neil and others who can speak theory it makes the average guy feel like a dumb ass if he doesn't understand it all. And that's shame. Makes us average people start looking for "Music Viagra" !!:lol:
What matters is what you intend to do with the music you play or want to play. If your goal is to be a great campfire player then understanding basic chords, strums, patterns etc may be enough.
If your goal to to become a performing musician or professional player or songwriter then obviously more theory is almost mandatory. If you want to learn to play lead guitar then you better learn the major and minor scales in all five positions. Of learning the blues, you need the blues scales and turnarounds.
So rather than say that every guitarist needs Neil's level of music knowledge the first question that should asked is "How far do you want to go with the guitar"? Many people will be perfectly happy learning to play all the songs in TARGET and they don't really care how you construct an Abmin7 chord!
Rather than trying to explaion what you don't know, it might be better to state what you want to learn or where you want to go with the guitar and then the pros on this forum can say "here's the level of theory you may need to get there"!!
Guys like Eagle may be getting unnecessarily frustrated for nothing! We make this subject way too overwhelming for the average guy!! When in doubt remember the K.I.S.S. theory!!
But listening to Neil and others who can speak theory it makes the average guy feel like a dumb ass if he doesn't understand it all. And that's shame. Makes us average people start looking for "Music Viagra" !!:lol:
What matters is what you intend to do with the music you play or want to play. If your goal is to be a great campfire player then understanding basic chords, strums, patterns etc may be enough.
If your goal to to become a performing musician or professional player or songwriter then obviously more theory is almost mandatory. If you want to learn to play lead guitar then you better learn the major and minor scales in all five positions. Of learning the blues, you need the blues scales and turnarounds.
So rather than say that every guitarist needs Neil's level of music knowledge the first question that should asked is "How far do you want to go with the guitar"? Many people will be perfectly happy learning to play all the songs in TARGET and they don't really care how you construct an Abmin7 chord!
Rather than trying to explaion what you don't know, it might be better to state what you want to learn or where you want to go with the guitar and then the pros on this forum can say "here's the level of theory you may need to get there"!!
Guys like Eagle may be getting unnecessarily frustrated for nothing! We make this subject way too overwhelming for the average guy!! When in doubt remember the K.I.S.S. theory!!
BigBear wrote:
I agree with most of what you say bear, but the fact is the thread for theory is available but rarely used. I agree that those who want to learn should ask about the topics and things they would like to know more about.
However, I find that everyone should know more theory than they think they should. I suppose if it's just you and no one else and you don't care, then knowing nothing is OK. I don't think people on this site and especially those in the TARGET program are those type of people.
Have you ever been with other guitarist and you are trying to explain how a part goes or how to add a 2nd or 3rd guitar and one guy doesn't know what chords are in what key or even what a key is. Or he doesn't know what the I, IV, V chords mean, etc. You and the guy who know some theory can play and make it nice while the other guy just tries to follow, even though he is a good player on his own.
The "theory" stuff Neil shows for 'Hotel California' and the triad stuff is very basic and easy but can add so much to a multiple guitar play along.
My thing is, there is a forum thread for theory and from my experience a very helpful bunch of people here who would be more than happy to answer any question posed to the best of their ability, myself included.
Keep Playing
Ric
I think the problem with music theory is how much is really needed? Certainly, the average guitarist doesn't need to fully understand Phrygian dominant scales in order to play the guitar!
But listening to Neil and others who can speak theory it makes the average guy feel like a dumb ass if he doesn't understand it all. And that's shame. Makes us average people start looking for "Music Viagra" !!:lol:
What matters is what you intend to do with the music you play or want to play. If your goal is to be a great campfire player then understanding basic chords, strums, patterns etc may be enough.
If your goal to to become a performing musician or professional player or songwriter then obviously more theory is almost mandatory. If you want to learn to play lead guitar then you better learn the major and minor scales in all five positions. Of learning the blues, you need the blues scales and turnarounds.
So rather than say that every guitarist needs Neil's level of music knowledge the first question that should asked is "How far do you want to go with the guitar"? Many people will be perfectly happy learning to play all the songs in TARGET and they don't really care how you construct an Abmin7 chord!
Rather than trying to explaion what you don't know, it might be better to state what you want to learn or where you want to go with the guitar and then the pros on this forum can say "here's the level of theory you may need to get there"!!
Guys like Eagle may be getting unnecessarily frustrated for nothing! We make this subject way too overwhelming for the average guy!! When in doubt remember the K.I.S.S. theory!!
I agree with most of what you say bear, but the fact is the thread for theory is available but rarely used. I agree that those who want to learn should ask about the topics and things they would like to know more about.
However, I find that everyone should know more theory than they think they should. I suppose if it's just you and no one else and you don't care, then knowing nothing is OK. I don't think people on this site and especially those in the TARGET program are those type of people.
Have you ever been with other guitarist and you are trying to explain how a part goes or how to add a 2nd or 3rd guitar and one guy doesn't know what chords are in what key or even what a key is. Or he doesn't know what the I, IV, V chords mean, etc. You and the guy who know some theory can play and make it nice while the other guy just tries to follow, even though he is a good player on his own.
The "theory" stuff Neil shows for 'Hotel California' and the triad stuff is very basic and easy but can add so much to a multiple guitar play along.
My thing is, there is a forum thread for theory and from my experience a very helpful bunch of people here who would be more than happy to answer any question posed to the best of their ability, myself included.
Keep Playing
Ric
Here's my two cents: Every guitar player is different. Some of the greatest players in history were self-taught with relatively little understanding of music theory. Conversely, many with extensive theory knowledge may not be the best players.
So, take what you need (or think you need) from theory, but don't let it hang you up too much. I know scales, keys, and how chords are built. After 27 years of playing I find this knowledge is enough. I can play everything I set out to play and that is all I ever wanted to do.
Music theory is like tying a shoe. It's clumsy and awkward at first, but once you know it you just do it without thinking. Best part is: once you do know it, you can forget it and just play.
If you're planning on composing symphonies or complex arrangements then keep learning it. It might be beneficial to take a music theory course at a local college, etc.
So, take what you need (or think you need) from theory, but don't let it hang you up too much. I know scales, keys, and how chords are built. After 27 years of playing I find this knowledge is enough. I can play everything I set out to play and that is all I ever wanted to do.
Music theory is like tying a shoe. It's clumsy and awkward at first, but once you know it you just do it without thinking. Best part is: once you do know it, you can forget it and just play.
If you're planning on composing symphonies or complex arrangements then keep learning it. It might be beneficial to take a music theory course at a local college, etc.
gingold wrote:
I guess I wonder, why is theory such a hang up for guitar players? Why is it that guitar players are either afraid of theory or think it is something that will stifle them? In most other musical studies theory is considered a necessary part of your musical training and knowing at least some of it can only help you and not hinder you.
Keep Playing
Ric
I agree whole heartedly learn what you need to reach the level you would like to achieve. And yes, ideally theory should be thoughtless once you learn it it should be a part of you musically and not something you constantly have to think about. If you are constantly thinking about how it works and how to apply and use it you haven't learned it well enough.So, take what you need (or think you need) from theory, but don't let it hang you up too much.
Music theory is like tying a shoe. It's clumsy and awkward at first, but once you know it you just do it without thinking. Best part is: once you do know it, you can forget it and just play.
I guess I wonder, why is theory such a hang up for guitar players? Why is it that guitar players are either afraid of theory or think it is something that will stifle them? In most other musical studies theory is considered a necessary part of your musical training and knowing at least some of it can only help you and not hinder you.
Keep Playing
Ric
rcsnydley wrote:
My original point was that theory should not get in the way of the sheer joy of playing the guitar. And that sometimes more advanced players make way too big a deal of learning theory. And that is very intimidating to guitarists that don't need all the theory to enjoy playing. Sure, theory can open some big doors and let a musician dramatically expand their horizons. But so what? Not everyone wants that.
I'm interested in music theory because I'm a geek and an info junkie. I'll never use even a small fraction of the theory I've learned. You can make an argument that every musician NEEDS all the theory that they can get but I contend that is completely wrong.
I certainly don't need all the complex mathematics I learned in school to be an engineer. Just like I don't need complex music theory to play the guitar!!!
I think the Let's Talk Theory is very useful to get help from others, like you, who understand it better. And I'm not minimizing it's importance or significance. I just don't want to lead others into believing that they can't enjoy the guitar without it because they can. Gingold makes a great point and he is a skilled musician!!
Maybe the secret to learning the guitar is learning what you need to learn!! :silly:
Ric- I don't think guitarists are any different from other musicians BUT the guitar is fundamentally one of the most accessible instruments for a newbie to pick up and make sounds with. The keyboard isn't nearly as accessible. The beauty of the guitar is it's simplicity, pure and simple.I guess I wonder, why is theory such a hang up for guitar players? Why is it that guitar players are either afraid of theory or think it is something that will stifle them? In most other musical studies theory is considered a necessary part of your musical training and knowing at least some of it can only help you and not hinder you.
My original point was that theory should not get in the way of the sheer joy of playing the guitar. And that sometimes more advanced players make way too big a deal of learning theory. And that is very intimidating to guitarists that don't need all the theory to enjoy playing. Sure, theory can open some big doors and let a musician dramatically expand their horizons. But so what? Not everyone wants that.
I'm interested in music theory because I'm a geek and an info junkie. I'll never use even a small fraction of the theory I've learned. You can make an argument that every musician NEEDS all the theory that they can get but I contend that is completely wrong.
I certainly don't need all the complex mathematics I learned in school to be an engineer. Just like I don't need complex music theory to play the guitar!!!
I think the Let's Talk Theory is very useful to get help from others, like you, who understand it better. And I'm not minimizing it's importance or significance. I just don't want to lead others into believing that they can't enjoy the guitar without it because they can. Gingold makes a great point and he is a skilled musician!!
Maybe the secret to learning the guitar is learning what you need to learn!! :silly:
BigBear wrote:
Of course, beginners might not yet know what they need to know. Consequently, they get inundated with apparent abstract theories that can overwhelm them. Yes, playing guitar (or any musical instrument) should be fun. My sister was forced to practice violin as a child. She became an accomplished violinist who played in symphonies and even taught in Neil's store for a while! As an adult she became burned out and as far as I know she hasn't even picked up a violin for more than 15 years! In fact, she has only one instrument in her house right now and it's a guitar! Hmm....
And BigBear, thank you for the kind words.
And there you have it!! Well said!
Maybe the secret to learning the guitar is learning what you need to learn!! :silly:
Of course, beginners might not yet know what they need to know. Consequently, they get inundated with apparent abstract theories that can overwhelm them. Yes, playing guitar (or any musical instrument) should be fun. My sister was forced to practice violin as a child. She became an accomplished violinist who played in symphonies and even taught in Neil's store for a while! As an adult she became burned out and as far as I know she hasn't even picked up a violin for more than 15 years! In fact, she has only one instrument in her house right now and it's a guitar! Hmm....
And BigBear, thank you for the kind words.