A Theory Question

[michaelaaron]

While everything discussed about the key and where the notes come from is true, sometimes songs will borrow from many other keys and modes. So while the song is esentially in G, and starts out that way, it may contain notes and chords not found in G at all. This may be handled in two ways on a piece of sheet music: one is the key signature will change before a section of the song that's not in G, or it will be completely ignored and # and b notes will be added to explain the inconsistencies. Let me give you an example: If you take "Every Breath You Take" and play it in G, then most of the song is in G. The chords are G, Emin, C, D. But, on the "oh can't you see...you belong to me" section we get C7 (with a Bb in the chord and bass line) and then later, an A MAJOR chord, which is not in G at all. Then, the bridge of the song has these two chords...Ebmaj7, F. Those are not in G at all. When dealing with pop tunes, it's good to remember that there are no real rules to key signatures or chords. They all come from somewhere related, but not solidly in the "initial" key of the song. C7 in this case came from or is borrowed from a G blues scale. A MAJOR is the 5 of 5. What that means is that it is the 5 chord of D, which is the 5th chord of G. It is a common substition, and in this case, A major goes right into, or resolves, to D, the "root" of this substitution. Ebmaj7 and F are borrowed from the parallel minor of G major, G natural minor. it is the b6 and b7 chord of G natural minor. So again, a relation to G major, but borrowed. This is called Modal Interchange. Hope this helps more than confuses, but if it does, blame it on the Beatles! They really broke this open!

[haoli25]

Great first post MICHAELAARON. That helped me a
lot. Thank you.

[rcsnydley]

Great post michaelaaron and welcome to the forum, looking forward to reading your input in the future.

True, chords can come from different places and one great one is as you mentioned the V of V or the 5 chord of the 5 chord of the initial key, i.e. key of G, V chord is D, V chord of D is A. A resolves to D and then D resolves to G. Another great place to find chords is in the parallel major or minor key. For example, the parallel of the G major key is the G minor key.


Keep Playing
Ric

[michaelaaron]

Here's another fun example of how "key" can be rendered obscure or almost meaningless...

In the classic Fleetwood Mac track "Dreams" The song is basically 2 chords the WHOLE DAMN TIME! F, G. That's it, except for a little middle break where an occasional A minor is thrown in. What key signature is found on the sheet music? C major. And that's correct, even though the C chord never once appears. But, F and G major chords appear in really only 2 easily identifiable places: C major scale (ionian) and the A natural minor scale (aeolian). What is the difference? None really, except the starting place or the majority chords used. C major and A minor scales are the same, but one starts on a different note. So call "Dreams" what you will, but in C major, F is the IV chord and G is the V chord. In A minor, F is the flat 6 chord and G is the flat 7 chord. No difference.

A tendency many people have when the first begin to learn music is the first chord is what is assumed to be the I chord. But not always so. Either way, Lindsey Buckingham and Co. managed to get a LOT of mileage out of 2 chords!

[Chasplaya]

michaelaaron wrote:

Here's another fun example of how "key" can be rendered obscure or almost meaningless...

In the classic Fleetwood Mac track "Dreams" The song is basically 2 chords the WHOLE DAMN TIME! F, G. That's it, except for a little middle break where an occasional A minor is thrown in. What key signature is found on the sheet music? C major. And that's correct, even though the C chord never once appears. But, F and G major chords appear in really only 2 easily identifiable places: C major scale (ionian) and the A natural minor scale (aeolian). What is the difference? None really, except the starting place or the majority chords used. C major and A minor scales are the same, but one starts on a different note. So call "Dreams" what you will, but in C major, F is the IV chord and G is the V chord. In A minor, F is the flat 6 chord and G is the flat 7 chord. No difference.

A tendency many people have when the first begin to learn music is the first chord is what is assumed to be the I chord. But not always so. Either way, Lindsey Buckingham and Co. managed to get a LOT of mileage out of 2 chords!

You are no doubt right here , but i think you might have scared off some of us lesser beings with your knolwledge lol

[rcsnydley]

Chasplaya wrote:

michaelaaron wrote:

Here's another fun example of how "key" can be rendered obscure or almost meaningless...

In the classic Fleetwood Mac track "Dreams" The song is basically 2 chords the WHOLE DAMN TIME! F, G. That's it, except for a little middle break where an occasional A minor is thrown in. What key signature is found on the sheet music? C major. And that's correct, even though the C chord never once appears. But, F and G major chords appear in really only 2 easily identifiable places: C major scale (ionian) and the A natural minor scale (aeolian). What is the difference? None really, except the starting place or the majority chords used. C major and A minor scales are the same, but one starts on a different note. So call "Dreams" what you will, but in C major, F is the IV chord and G is the V chord. In A minor, F is the flat 6 chord and G is the flat 7 chord. No difference.

A tendency many people have when the first begin to learn music is the first chord is what is assumed to be the I chord. But not always so. Either way, Lindsey Buckingham and Co. managed to get a LOT of mileage out of 2 chords!

You are no doubt right here , but i think you might have scared off some of us lesser beings with your knolwledge lol

Lesser beings can become greater beings by take in said knowledge:cheer:

Keep Learning
Ric

[Lavallee]

I agree, the more the theory is repeated the better, as we (lesser being ) will eventually understand.

Keep em coming and thanks to all of you for taking the time to explain

Marc

[Chasplaya]

rcsnydley wrote:

Chasplaya wrote:

michaelaaron wrote:

Lesser beings can become greater beings by take in said knowledge:cheer:

Keep Learning
Ric

I have every intention of sucking all this stuff in, some I know some I knew but didn't realise it and some of it is new, so keep it coming peeps.

[speedie]

I wish I were so lucky Chasplaya, but I have read and re-read these
posts and it is completely over my head. I know this is a dumb
question, but is there a "Guitar Theory For Dummies" book out there
somewhere? I would like to catch up if I can.

[rcsnydley]

speedie wrote:

I wish I were so lucky Chasplaya, but I have read and re-read these
posts and it is completely over my head. I know this is a dumb
question, but is there a "Guitar Theory For Dummies" book out there
somewhere? I would like to catch up if I can.

Speedie - here's one option.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... 8&v=glance

I will say that I do not own this book, but have heard good things about it here.

http://www.guitarnoise.com/forums/viewt ... 12&t=14137

Be sure to look over the theory section of the guitarnoise forum as it has a lot of great information.

Keep Playing
Ric