Scales & Modes???

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Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:18 pm

O.K., here is kind of a basic question, but I need some guidance.

I think I am correct in saying that the Major scale is the Ionian Mode (yes or no).

From there, the other modes are created by starting at a different scale degree of the Major scale or Ionian mode. I.E. the Dorian would start with the second degree and the Phrygian the third and so on (don't have them all memorized - I always get confused on with the Locrian and the Lydian). What starts to get me really confused is when to apply the sharps and flats to certain scale degrees. I am not sure why the sharps and flats are applied and where they are applied.

Anyway, if this question makes any sense at all, I would really appreciate some help in gaining a better understanding here.

Also, once you have the scales / modes memorized, and you can play them decently, where do you go from there?

Thanks,

MJ


TGKatherine
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Fri Jun 19, 2009 1:39 am

Yes, Ionian is the same as the Major scale.

I found a site that has an excellent breakdown of modes. I'll cut and paste it below:

The 7 Modes in Music are:

•Ionian
(W-W-H-W-W-W-H) Ionian Mode is the same as the Major Scale. So when you hear somebody sing Do-Re-Mi-Fa-So-La-Ti-Do

•Dorian
(W-H-W-W-W-H-W) Dorian mode is most commonly heard in Celtic music and early American folk songs derived from Irish melodies. Songs written in Dorian mode sound somewhat sad, but not as dark as the Aoelian Scale. Notice how Dorian is the second mode, and therefore starts on the second note in the scale. As a result, it has an unsettling cadence.

•Phrygian
(H-W-W-W-H-W-W) Phrygian works well with both Dorian and Aoelian, being as they are all minor scales. Its common for musicians to utilize this mode in order to create a sad feling, but not as dark as the traditional minor (Aeolian) scale.

•Lydian
(W-W-W-H-W-W-H) Lydian mode is an Ionian scale but with the sharp 4th interval. Whenever you hear of ‘dream’ music or ‘flying’ music then you’re probably hearing some type of Lydian, although sometimes the whole tone scale. This is mode is used alot in jazz, but that doesn’t mean you can’t use in in you heavy metal band

•Mixolydian
(W-W-H-W-W-H-W) Mixolydian is the major scale but with the Flattened Seventh interval. You’ll hear this mode ALOT in blues playing, especially since blues constantly changes keys, and utilizes that b7th interval. play this mode up and down and recognize how it wants to move, and change keys.

•Aoelian
(W-H-W-W-H-W-W) Aeolian mode the minor key. The intervals of Aeolian mode creates a very sad, dark feel. So you’re probably thinking.. Wait? There’s a major key AND a minor key? Yep! but understand that playing a C Aoelian is NOT in the same key as playing in C Major. Because think: Aoelian is the sixth scale degree, so A Aoelian is in the same key as C Ionian, because A is the sixth note a C scale (C-D-E-F-G-A)

•Locrian
(H-W-W-H-W-W-W) Locrian mode is a very quirky sounding scale. It’s based off of a diminished scale, where there’s an unsettling tritone involved. To write a song, or a solo in a Locrian scale would be very strange although its been done. truth is, maybe that’s the EXACT sound you’re looking for.


http://waltribeiro.net/2008/10/28/music ... explained/


haoli25
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Fri Jun 19, 2009 8:42 am

I think my short answer is, "Yes, I prefer boxers."


You guys are WAAAAYYYYYYY over my head! lol


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Fri Jun 19, 2009 8:43 am

Great info, thanks so much for responding. I printed this page out and am going over it. I will also check out the link.

Cheers!

MJ


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Fri Jun 19, 2009 9:14 am

LOL!!!!

I have only a slight grasp of the scales and modes, so that is why I am hoping to gain more knowledge in that area. It can be a bit overwhelming at first, but the more pieces I get, the more it all starts making sense. I am really hoping that learning the scales and modes will eventually aid in my transcription abilities, as that is where I TOTALLY suck!!!!!!!!!!

Cheers!

MJ


TGKatherine
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Fri Jun 19, 2009 9:59 am

haoli25 wrote:
I think my short answer is, "Yes, I prefer boxers."


You guys are WAAAAYYYYYYY over my head! lol
To tell you the truth I really only think about modes when someone asks or that rare moment when I'll pick something out and want to "identify" the theory behind it. Doesn't happen very often...


rcsnydley
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Fri Jun 19, 2009 10:48 am

Excellent post gingold, thanks.

Just a quick observation, notice how the W-W-H-W-W-W-H pattern moves one position to the right every time and the left most step wraps around to the end. This happens no matter what the beginning note is.

So the modes are really just the major step pattern starting from a different point in the pattern. What note we start with is dependent on the starting note of the "original" pattern. For example, if C is the "original" note then if we started at the third degree, the pattern would start on E and be H-W-W-W-H-W-W and be called the Phrygian mode.

Notice in the example above that the notes in C Ionian are C, D, E, F, G, A, B, likewise the note in E Phrygian are E, F, G, A, B, C, D, the same notes but a different starting note. This is not the same as the E major scale (Ionian) which has the notes E, F#, G#, A, B, C#, D#. In this case C would be the sixth degree and would have the same notes as the E major scale but start on C instead and be the Aoelian mode.

This would be a great thread to get started on the Theory board.

Keep Playing
Ric


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Fri Jun 19, 2009 10:53 am

gingold wrote:
haoli25 wrote:
I think my short answer is, "Yes, I prefer boxers."


You guys are WAAAAYYYYYYY over my head! lol
To tell you the truth I really only think about modes when someone asks or that rare moment when I'll pick something out and want to "identify" the theory behind it. Doesn't happen very often...
gingold:

If you don't think about modes, what is your thought process when you get started? I am really interested in trying to get varying perspectives on this, as I need to find something that clicks for me. Any light you could shed on your perspective would be of great interest to me.

Thanks,

MJ


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Fri Jun 19, 2009 10:54 am

I guess the place to get started is what you want to do with modes. If you're just into the theory then reading about them is probably good enough. If you want to understand how they sound and maybe incorporate them into your playing then I would go over each mode with a guitar in your hand. Like RCSnydley discovered, it's just taking a scale and beginning in a different place.


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Fri Jun 19, 2009 10:56 am

rcsnydley wrote:
Excellent post gingold, thanks.

Just a quick observation, notice how the W-W-H-W-W-W-H pattern moves one position to the right every time and the left most step wraps around to the end. This happens no matter what the beginning note is.

So the modes are really just the major step pattern starting from a different point in the pattern. What note we start with is dependent on the starting note of the "original" pattern. For example, if C is the "original" note then if we started at the third degree, the pattern would start on E and be H-W-W-W-H-W-W and be called the Phrygian mode.

Notice in the example above that the notes in C Ionian are C, D, E, F, G, A, B, likewise the note in E Phrygian are E, F, G, A, B, C, D, the same notes but a different starting note. This is not the same as the E major scale (Ionian) which has the notes E, F#, G#, A, B, C#, D#. In this case C would be the sixth degree and would have the same notes as the E major scale but start on C instead and be the Aoelian mode.

This would be a great thread to get started on the Theory board.

Keep Playing
Ric
Ric:

Yeah, I did notice the shift pattern. That is mostly how I remember what little I do know.....

It is little things like this that help me out though, so thanks!

I guess what confuses me the most is when and how to apply the modes.

BTW, this is in the Theory thread.

Cheers!

MJ


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