Universal Scale

jayswett
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Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:15 pm

Maybe the html is messed up but when you talk about the key of Eb the scale is

Eb - Step 1
F - Step 2
G - Step 3
Ab - Step 4
Bb - Step 5
C - Step 6
D - Step 7
Eb - Step 8 (octave)

Sometimes the best way to think about what might be called the universal scale is using syllables-

Do
Re
Mi
Fa
So
La
Ti
Do

The steps of the scale are also starting points, or roots of chords that belong to the key. These are, as Chas correctly pointed out-

I - Major Triad or Major 7 Chord
ii - Minor Triad or Minor 7 Chord
iii - Minor Triad or Minor 7 Chord
IV - Major Triad or Major 7 Chord
V - Major Triad or Dominant 7 Chord
vi - Minor Triad or Minor 7 Chord
viiø - Diminished Triad or Minor 7-5 Chord (aka half diminished)

If we venture into the key of G, we get-

G
A
B
C
D
E
F#

These are all based on the scale we call major or the Ionian mode but I think I got lost with the lack of # and b signs, or maybe the addition of F to make an E7 chord. Help me out guys...

Neil

P.S. I have not heard the term 'Universal Scale' but it might be because we all live under a certain set of rocks.


Chasplaya
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Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:47 pm

I'll crawl out from under my rock briefly... I studied scales in depth a while ago and due to differences of opinion and lack of agreement in musical circles in different countries it really got confusing. Sometimes the Natural scale is called the Universal scale and in someplaces its not. So I guess no truly correct answer to this thread. But I think we should all stick with a common theory and that is the what is given here.


BigBear
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Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:53 pm

It's entirely possible that the info I ordered on the Net came from Down Under or Europe or Tibet for all I know. Maybe they call their scales something different. I had just never heard the term before. Apparently, there is a good reason why I hadn't heard of it!!


rcsnydley
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Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:05 am

Chasplaya wrote:
The universal key or universal scale is a concept employed in music theory in which specific notes or chord symbols in a key signature are replaced with numbers or Roman numerals.

For example, in the key of E-flat major, the notes of the scale would be replaced like so:

* E becomes scale degree 1
* F becomes scale degree 2
* G becomes scale degree 3
* A becomes scale degree 4
* B becomes scale degree 5
* C becomes scale degree 6
* D becomes scale degree 7

When used with chord symbols, the Roman numerals representing the roots are often written in upper case for chords in the major family, and in lower case for chords in the minor family, with the usual "m" or "—" minor chord delineator omitted outright:

* E becomes I
* Fm7 becomes ii7
* Gm7 becomes iii7
* Amaj7 becomes IVmaj7
* B7 becomes V7
* Cm7 becomes vi7
* Dø7 becomes viiø7

I had found this on wikipedia ages ago and copied it for reference thinking I might use it for my guitar group, but never have so far.
What Chas is talking about here is a way to number the scale degrees so you can reference them regardless of what key you are playing in.

For example, in the key of C the scale degrees are:
C = I
Dm = ii
Em = iii
F = IV
G = V
Am = vi
Bdim = viidim
where Roman numerals represent the scale degrees with uppercase numerals for major chords and lower case for minor chords.

The practical application is that lets say we are playing C - F - G - C or in this system I - IV - V - I. Since I know its a I, IV, V, I progression it doesn't matter what chord I start with so changing keys is easy. For example, if someone says its a I, IV, V, I in D, I know the chords are D, G, A, D or the well known ii, V, I progression in G would be Am, D, G.

If you are playing with other musicians it is very handy to know and use this system.

Keep Playing
Ric


Chasplaya
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Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:37 am

You know the more I read this thread the better I understand it.. and actually see how useful this can be.


AndyT
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Sun Jul 05, 2009 4:20 am

Ya know... I actually thought I knew something there for a minute.

Ratz. :blush:


Chasplaya
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Sun Jul 05, 2009 4:35 am

Don't be too hard on yourself Andy, I don't think you were far off the mark, Ric has a knack of good explanations for these things


jp79652
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Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:52 pm

I ordered a book on amazon called "The Universal Scale" by John Parker... and yes there is a universal scale pattern that works anywhere on the neck if you know how to apply it. It takes all the memorization out of learning scales.


unclewalt
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Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:57 pm

I hadn't seen this thread before now, but I found Neil's "Huh?" from 3.5 years ago to be quite hilarious, probably because I was thinking exactly the same thing.


thereshopeyet
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Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:01 pm

Wikipedia is the only reference resource I can find that refers to universal key.
I wouldn't know if it's correct or not.

If the Universal term is correct then..... it's describing a naming convention similar to that which Neil discusses when referring to numerical scale degrees (12345678) and chord progressions based on scale note numbers .... either numeric or roman numerals etc.

For example a chord progression ....... I IV V I
The assumption being you know the notes and chords of a key.
The I IV I V is universal in that it transfers to all scales and harmonised key chords without musical name detail ?

For example - assuming you know the notes of all scales:
The same stands for scale notes 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 ..... the note number transfers to any scale, without naming a note so it's a universal naming convention !

Of course you need to know which key your in first, then apply the numbers ( universal names) appropriately etc.

Dermot


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