Ideas for Theory Lessons

rcsnydley
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Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:57 am

I was thinking about starting either a thread with music theory lessons or perhaps a music theory group.

There is so much to cover though and I'm at a loss as to where to begin so I am looking for some help. If members could tell me what they would like to see as short theory articles. Do you think a thread or a group would be better? Or anything else you can come up with.

I was thinking of starting it the beginning of next week if I can so any input will be much appreciated.

Ric


BigBear
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Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:14 am

rcsnydley wrote:
I was thinking about starting either a thread with music theory lessons or perhaps a music theory group.

There is so much to cover though and I'm at a loss as to where to begin so I am looking for some help. If members could tell me what they would like to see as short theory articles. Do you think a thread or a group would be better? Or anything else you can come up with.

I was thinking of starting it the beginning of next week if I can so any input will be much appreciated.

Ric
Ric- I would suggest, and I'm not sure how you do this, but answer the question "What theory does a guitarist really need?" And what theory is needed at various skill levels.

The problem with theory is that it typically gets provided through a fire hose when guitarists may only want a sip at a time! So we end up overwhelmed and incredibly frustrated.

So what is the sequence of theory a guitarist should learn? Do you learn the notes of the fingerboard or do you learn the pentatonic scale first? Do you learn the Circle of Fifths or the difference in modes? Chord construction or notes in a key? You get the idea.

If you could approach theory from a different perspective you would really be on to something valuable. And I think the questions that frequently pop up here are proof that guitarists are begging for a different approach!

Rick


eagle670
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Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:23 am

I think that this is going to be something that will have to be done by the members. I started the thread on "Music Theory Classroom" and it recieved alot of interest from everyone except the TG guy's. That tells me that they are probably not interested in it. I would support anyone wanting to start a theory forum. I am pretty thirsty for that kind of info and knowledge right now. I would also echo what BB said that it would really need to stick to what theory needs to be learned and is practical for use by guitarists. Careful steps need to be followed so as not to get too "involved" with indepth discussions and just stick to the practical applications.

Kevin


rcsnydley
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Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:28 am

BigBear wrote:
rcsnydley wrote:
I was thinking about starting either a thread with music theory lessons or perhaps a music theory group.

There is so much to cover though and I'm at a loss as to where to begin so I am looking for some help. If members could tell me what they would like to see as short theory articles. Do you think a thread or a group would be better? Or anything else you can come up with.

I was thinking of starting it the beginning of next week if I can so any input will be much appreciated.

Ric
Ric- I would suggest, and I'm not sure how you do this, but answer the question "What theory does a guitarist really need?" And what theory is needed at various skill levels.

The problem with theory is that it typically gets provided through a fire hose when guitarists may only want a sip at a time! So we end up overwhelmed and incredibly frustrated.

So what is the sequence of theory a guitarist should learn? Do you learn the notes of the fingerboard or do you learn the pentatonic scale first? Do you learn the Circle of Fifths or the difference in modes? Chord construction or notes in a key? You get the idea.

If you could approach theory from a different perspective you would really be on to something valuable. And I think the questions that frequently pop up here are proof that guitarists are begging for a different approach!

Rick
Rick,

You have just summarized my dilemma. I'm not sure if you do anything first or second. It depends on what you are doing and what level (what you already know) you are at. That is why I was looking for some ideas as to where everyone was at, then I could develop a list of topics to cover.

Maybe I need to do some more research and write up my own list and present it for feedback. That list would of course include what is important for guitar players to know.

Ric


rcsnydley
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Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:38 am

eagle670 wrote:
I think that this is going to be something that will have to be done by the members. I started the thread on "Music Theory Classroom" and it recieved alot of interest from everyone except the TG guy's. That tells me that they are probably not interested in it. I would support anyone wanting to start a theory forum. I am pretty thirsty for that kind of info and knowledge right now. I would also echo what BB said that it would really need to stick to what theory needs to be learned and is practical for use by guitarists. Careful steps need to be followed so as not to get too "involved" with indepth discussions and just stick to the practical applications.

Kevin
Kevin,

That's why I wanted input as to what people wanted and needed to know. I don't want to do theory just for theory's sake, but I want it to apply to the guitar.

Ric


BigBear
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Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:58 am

rcsnydley wrote:
Rick,

You have just summarized my dilemma. I'm not sure if you do anything first or second. It depends on what you are doing and what level (what you already know) you are at. That is why I was looking for some ideas as to where everyone was at, then I could develop a list of topics to cover.

Maybe I need to do some more research and write up my own list and present it for feedback. That list would of course include what is important for guitar players to know.
I can think of no one more qualified to take on this challenge than you!!

I believe you have two choices in teaching guitar theory. You can either feed it to guitarists as they learn and their skills (and interest) deveop or you can force feed it to them so they have the foundation before they learn. The challenge is traditional teaching methods have taken the approach that guitarists are musicians and they need the same theory as every other musician (bass players are excluded from this discussion! LOL!).

That is true if you are working with guitarists who want to master the instrument. But for the majority of players, they just want to learn songs, maybe sing a little, and have some fun. Traditional teaching methods fail them badly and turn them away from the guitar. That's a real shame.

So if you are working toward the goal of making theory reachable for the guitarists who might be called "hobbyists", you need to focus on those parts of theory that are revelent to their needs. For example, does a hobbyist really need to know about Locrian or Mixolydian modes to play "Gloria"? So why force them to learn it now? But I can see learning the Circle of Fifths so they can transpose a song into easier chords to play. That's practical knowledge not just theory!

Good luck buddy, I'm sure you wil have plenty of help along the way!!


BRBbrb
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Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:39 am

Ric; you're originally a keyboardist, right? So theory is probably ingrained in you. I took a few yrs. of piano in college & it's almost impossible to play w/o theory. Guitar on the other-hand, I feel, is different. A beginner can pick up a guitar; form a few basic chords & wallah - sounds pretty good. I recently saw a teaching video by Nancy Wilson of Heart explaining their hit "Mistral Wind". She didn't know the names of most the chords & joked about it - all she knew was "she was going for the most disonant, odd-ball notes she could come up with & the vibrato made it sound like water", which was the setting for the song. Some of the greats really just go by raw instinct. Theory is valuable; but most of us can only take bits & pieces.


rcsnydley
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Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:48 pm

Thanks Rick. And yes the modes are way beyond where I want or even feel comfortable going.

I feel that a lot of guitar players (and I am definitely one of them) hit a brick wall and give up, where just a little bit of a better understanding would move them to the next level.

I guess I would like to help take some of the mystery out of music and the guitar. I just hope I haven't bitten off more than I can chew.

I would like some help though with where to start, what do people want the most? I am also thinking that this may work better as a group, what does everyone think?

Ric


rcsnydley
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Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:58 pm

BRBbrb wrote:
Ric; you're originally a keyboardist, right? So theory is probably ingrained in you. I took a few yrs. of piano in college & it's almost impossible to play w/o theory. Guitar on the other-hand, I feel, is different. A beginner can pick up a guitar; form a few basic chords & wallah - sounds pretty good. I recently saw a teaching video by Nancy Wilson of Heart explaining their hit "Mistral Wind". She didn't know the names of most the chords & joked about it - all she knew was "she was going for the most disonant, odd-ball notes she could come up with & the vibrato made it sound like water", which was the setting for the song. Some of the greats really just go by raw instinct. Theory is valuable; but most of us can only take bits & pieces.
Yes, Barb, I played keyboards, but I was not trained on them. I am a self taught musician. I ran into situations where I couldn't progress because I didn't know what to do next or what to try.

And yes, there are good and even great players who didn't know theory, but for every one of them there are 100, 1000, ?, who threw in the towel and gave up. There is an article about the importance of theory that I think I will post it here.

Ric


rcsnydley
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Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:04 pm

Here is a great article I highly recommend. In fact, the whole website is very good.

http://www.torvund.net/guitar/index.php ... _practical

Ric


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