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Hello All

I have a question regarding chors and scales, which came to me after Neil's most recent webinar. Neil was discussing how certain scales played with certain chords will sound in harmony, and others will create tension and need to be resolved.

My questions, as a theory newbie are
I'm aware that by taking a major scale and by flattening or sharpening certain notes you create other scales, I think (please correct me if I'm wrong), but how do you know if a scale will work over a chord progression you are playing. I think Neil said that the chords have to appear in the scale, but I'm not sure.

I hope some of you theory guys out there understand what I'm asking- I hope it makes sense any you can shed some light on this for me.

Thanks in advance

Joe

Joe:

I think you have the right idea. Whatever key you are playing in, just use the same scale or the relative minor scale (has the same notes, just begins at a different spot). Example: You are playing in the Key of C Major.

Chords:
C
Dmi
Emi
F
G
Ami
Bdim

Major Scale:
C
D
E
F
G
A
B

Relative Minor Scale (Ami):
A
B
C
D
E
F
G


Notice the notes are the same. Now you could go the other way around as well. If you have a melody from the C Major scale, you could choose progressions from either the Key of C Major or the Key of A Minor.

A Minor Key:
Ami
Bdim
C
Dmi
Emi
F
G

Hope this did not confuse you further. Also double check the info, as i have not had enough coffee yet this morning......lol

Thanks MJ

I'm a bit theoried out for today, my head is spinning! I'll have a look at your explanation tomorrow, and get back to you then, if thats ok.

Thanks for the help

Joe

heyjoe wrote:

Thanks MJ

I'm a bit theoried out for today, my head is spinning! I'll have a look at your explanation tomorrow, and get back to you then, if thats ok.

Thanks for the help

Joe

Totally understand! Like I said, I could be off base here. I am heading out for a cup of coffee right now at 4-Bucks. I will revisit my answer again and see if it still makes sense after the coffee.....lol

:laugh:

hey all, i do on this moment experiment with this because i try the write a song i use the Cmaj scale C-D-E-F-G-A-B and his related chords, on this moment i have 8 measers ready in a progression C Dm Am Em C Dm Am Em and a melody and lyrics with that,if you want i want to share my experience in that, for example when i play chord C i take notes out off the scale but not to far away from the notes of the Chord........i used for the first measer on the C chord the notes C C B D C A .... ALL DIFFICULT to explaine in characters but i see............

Willem:

I follow you. You ought to put together a small video and show us. Would be great!

MJ

B)

Music Junkie wrote:

I think you have the right idea. Whatever key you are playing in, just use the same scale or the relative minor scale (has the same notes, just begins at a different spot). Example: You are playing in the Key of C Major.

Chords:
C
Dmi
Emi
F
G
Ami
Bdim

Major Scale:
C
D
E
F
G
A
B

Relative Minor Scale (Ami):
A
B
C
D
E
F
G


Notice the notes are the same. Now you could go the other way around as well. If you have a melody from the C Major scale, you could choose progressions from either the Key of C Major or the Key of A Minor.

A Minor Key:
Ami
Bdim
C
Dmi
Emi
F
G

Hope this did not confuse you further. Also double check the info, as i have not had enough coffee yet this morning......lol

Hi MJ, Hi Willem

I'm still confused, but the mists are clearing, as a theory newbie, the relative minor thing was not something I knew about, so that makes sense now, thanks.

What I'm confused by is where you got these chords from
C
Dmi
Emi
F
G
Ami
Bdim

I see its C,D,E,F,G,A,B but I don't understand why some are minors, or diminished and some are majors.

1 more thing as well, if I get this right, you are saying I could play a c major scale over any of the above C,Dmi,Emi etc etc chords, and it would sound right-in harmony, and not dissonant requiring some resolution(I think)

Thanks for al your help.

Joe

heyjoe wrote:

What I'm confused by is where you got these chords from
C
Dmi
Emi
F
G
Ami
Bdim

I see its C,D,E,F,G,A,B but I don't understand why some are minors, or diminished and some are majors.

1 more thing as well, if I get this right, you are saying I could play a c major scale over any of the above C,Dmi,Emi etc etc chords, and it would sound right-in harmony, and not dissonant requiring some resolution(I think)

Thanks for al your help.

Joe

Hi Joe --

Quick answer to this one:
The reason that some chords are minor and some are major is because: for a chord to be in a certain key, all of the notes of a that chord need to be from the key.

For the key of C-Major, the notes are (as you've said):
C-D-E-F-G-A-B

The notes of D-Major are D-F#-A. Notice that F# is not a note in the C-Major scale, so D-Major is not in the key of C. However, D-minor's notes are D-F-A (flatted third = minor chord), and these *are* all in the C scale -- so its Dm not D that is in the key of C.

Making the answer longer:
Turns out this is a pattern you can apply to any key. If you assign a 'degree' to each of the notes, like so:
C-Major: C=1st degree, D=2nd degree, E=3, F=4, etc

Then you can say that for every major key, the chords for that key are:
1-major
2-minor
3-minor
4-major
5-major
6-minor
7-diminished

So, for example, we can say easily that for G-Major (G-A-B-C-D-E-F#), the chords that go along with it are:
G
Am
Bm
C
D
Em
F#dim

Hope that helps.

Hi fjvdb

I was busy looking though my guitar books at exactly this sort of thing when you posted your answer. Looking at what you have said, it makes perfect sense, thank you!

So now, in effect, I should be able to pick a scale, and using your major/minor/diminished format below, I should be able to pick chords which will go with the scale, so the solo and chords will work together.

If thats correct, then I need to go sit down with a pen, lots of paper, my guitar books with chords and scales in, and make something up using what this thread has talked about.

Thanks again.

Joe

Joe: You do need to watch what note you play over what chord still, but you should be able to find what you are looking for in that set of notes.

C Major Scale:

C D E F G A B C

1 (whole step) 2 (whole step) 3 (half step) 4 (whole step) 5 (whole step) 6 (whole step) 7 (half step) 8 or 1.

Triads or basic chords are made up of three notes, the 1st, the 3rd and the 5th of the scale. For a C it would be C, E and G. In the case of C to E, it is a MAJOR 3rd (two full steps)in distance. If you start at D, your chord would be made up of D, F and A. The distance from D to F is a MINOR 3rd (one and one half steps). This is what gives you your Major or Minor quality.

A good exercise that my instructor had me do when beginning theory was to write out all of my Major scales and then construct all of the triad chords from them.

Major scale being: whole step/whole step/half step/whole step/whole step/whole step/half step

Try doing this with any given scale.....

D / E / F# / G / A / B / C# / D

Now look at the D chord. Made up of the 1st, the 3rd and the 5th. In this case it would be D / F# / A. What is the distance between D and F#? Two full steps. Therefore it has a major quality. Now look at the B chord. In this case it would be B / D / F#. What is the distance between B and D? One and one half steps. Therefore it has a minor quality.

If you do this over for each and every major scale, you will notice a pattern.

Chord 1 is Major - denoted by I
Chord 2 is minor - denoted by ii
Chord 3 is minor - denoted by iii
Chord 4 is Major - denoted by IV
Chord 5 is Major - denoted by V
Chord 6 is minor - denoted by vi
Chord 7 is diminished - denoted by viidim

Diminished because it has a flatted 7th as well as a flatted 3rd.

Now if I have not completely confused you yet, I am not trying hard enough.

Have a great weekend and have some vino!!!!!

MJ