question about slash-chords or inversions

TGMatt
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Sun Nov 07, 2010 1:59 pm

Hey all!

I have a question, I've just been called dumb by Neil, wich I'm trying to take humbly :huh: .....but I've just learned that chords like F/A, or G/B or C/E, wich are commonly, but mistakenly called slashchords (that's where Neil called me dumb...) are actually inversions...I think most of us know that major-chords are constructed with three notes 1 3 5 of the majorscale and the name of the chord is the lowest note (the bassnote) you need to play..
I get it when you play the 3th as the bassnote or the fifth that you should call it an inversion. But what or how do you call it when the bassnote is nót one of the three notes of the major-chord?? Like for example: G/F or C/B or Am/G. In Neil's lesson on this (part 4 of open chords), he discusses those chords as passing bass-notes from one chord to another, but I don't think he says how to call them, so I guess he says that those ones are inversions as well, if so, why????
I'm also working my way through Mark Levine's Jazz theory book and he does talk about slashchords.....but if Neil says something, I really believe him too....so...I'm not sure if I understand correctly or maybe they're both right or ...?

So why is the term slashchord wrong?
What do you call a chord with a different bassnote other then the root, 3th or 5th and why?
And why do two highly respected teachers say different things?

Perhaps I should ask Neil, but wanted to throw this in the community first, curious what all of you can come up with!

Greetz!


willem
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Sun Nov 07, 2010 2:24 pm

:huh: ,I think its only a word to call out how it is written,, GslashB,, B)

G/B = a kind of Em7??


edit: Now when i look closer,,it looks like inversions,,, G= G-B-D,,,G/B=B-D-G..b]


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TGNeil
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Sun Nov 07, 2010 2:59 pm

Hi Vanessa,

Sorry to be unclear, and I certainly didn't mean to call anybody dumb. I'm sure what I meant was the name 'slashchord' has no real musical meaning. It is just a description of how an inversion is commonly written on the page. What you see might be G/F# but what I would call it when talking to anybody would be 'G with F# in the bass'. As an example, this would be an inversion of a Gmaj7 chord, 3rd inversion to be exact. Usually I would not call it 'G major 7 with F# in the bass' because the F# is what makes it Gmaj7 and might be inclined to include 2 F#s, making it more difficult and not the result you might really want.

To get really specific, if you played G/A, the most accurate description would be Gadd9/A, but that can be unnecessarily confusing. Not to be confused with the occasionally useful teaching technique of introducing something that is intentionally confusing.

I hope that helps (all except the last sentence)...

Neil


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TGNeil
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Sun Nov 07, 2010 3:36 pm

Thank you very much Neil, I think I got it! (and of course I didn't take 'dumb' all that personal, I was just kinda shocked....well confused haha!)

But please one more question though, the last sentence, G/A would be more accurate as Gadd9/A.....I'm really trying to figure that out...if I would read the accurate description I would say that it would be a G-chord with an added A-note as well as an A-bassnote..something like: x00203....but I have the feeling that that is not what you mean, because you just want an A as the lowest bassnote, so why add9 would be more accurate?

However, you gave me much more to think about! A big thank you to you!





TGNeil wrote:
Hi Vanessa,

Sorry to be unclear, and I certainly didn't mean to call anybody dumb. I'm sure what I meant was the name 'slashchord' has no real musical meaning. It is just a description of how an inversion is commonly written on the page. What you see might be G/F# but what I would call it when talking to anybody would be 'G with F# in the bass'. As an example, this would be an inversion of a Gmaj7 chord, 3rd inversion to be exact. Usually I would not call it 'G major 7 with F# in the bass' because the F# is what makes it Gmaj7 and might be inclined to include 2 F#s, making it more difficult and not the result you might really want.

To get really specific, if you played G/A, the most accurate description would be Gadd9/A, but that can be unnecessarily confusing. Not to be confused with the occasionally useful teaching technique of introducing something that is intentionally confusing.

I hope that helps (all except the last sentence)...

Neil


chacho
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Sun Nov 07, 2010 3:47 pm

Thanks Willem!

You're right, it's just how it is written! And yes, they're inversions, that was the part that I got! It's fascinating how you could call chords....like the G/B, I guess you could call it an Em7, only there's a B in the bass, Em7/B....depends on the context.

However I got an answer from the big TGmaster himself, wich is really really nice, because I was really confused about this, he gave me a lot more theory to think about! ;) His Acoustic Genius Series are just great!



willem wrote:
:huh: ,I think its only a word to call out how it is written,, GslashB,, B)

G/B = a kind of Em7??


edit: Now when i look closer,,it looks like inversions,,, G= G-B-D,,,G/B=B-D-G..b]


willem
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Sun Nov 07, 2010 4:02 pm

nesh16041972 wrote:
Thank you very much Neil, I think I got it! (and of course I didn't take 'dumb' all that personal, I was just kinda shocked....well confused haha!)

But please one more question though, the last sentence, G/A would be more accurate as Gadd9/A.....I'm really trying to figure that out...if I would read the accurate description I would say that it would be a G-chord with an added A-note as well as an A-bassnote..something like: x00203....but I have the feeling that that is not what you mean, because you just want an A as the lowest bassnote, so why add9 would be more accurate?

However, you gave me much more to think about! A big thank you to you!





TGNeil wrote:
Hi Vanessa,

Sorry to be unclear, and I certainly didn't mean to call anybody dumb. I'm sure what I meant was the name 'slashchord' has no real musical meaning. It is just a description of how an inversion is commonly written on the page. What you see might be G/F# but what I would call it when talking to anybody would be 'G with F# in the bass'. As an example, this would be an inversion of a Gmaj7 chord, 3rd inversion to be exact. Usually I would not call it 'G major 7 with F# in the bass' because the F# is what makes it Gmaj7 and might be inclined to include 2 F#s, making it more difficult and not the result you might really want.

To get really specific, if you played G/A, the most accurate description would be Gadd9/A, but that can be unnecessarily confusing. Not to be confused with the occasionally useful teaching technique of introducing something that is intentionally confusing.

I hope that helps (all except the last sentence)...

Neil

HI,i find this intresting,, Gadd9/A,,as this something to do with 6 strings also,,when you ask a pianist to plaY a G CHORD ,he would proberly play G-B-D,,But when we strum on the guitar a G,that is G-B-D-g-b-g,, so Gadd9/A would be on the strings A-D-a-b-g..,,just a thought..and confusing,,or not..mmm,,well we have diagrams


quincy451
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Sun Nov 07, 2010 4:20 pm

Well actually this was the last question that I asked Neil..that's also what I meant by x00203 , but I think he means something
else..hopefully he'll get back to me! :)

As for the piano, if you'd play a G-chord, you could play G-B-D rootposition, or B-D-G (first inversion) or D-G-B (second inversion) with your right hand and play A-bassnotes with your left hand..on the guitar sometimes you play the same note on two or more different strings..like G: G-B-D-G-B-G, I have to admit that I never paid attention to the fact that you're actually playing inversions...hmmm...like I said lots to think about!

willem wrote:
nesh16041972 wrote:
Thank you very much Neil, I think I got it! (and of course I didn't take 'dumb' all that personal, I was just kinda shocked....well confused haha!)

But please one more question though, the last sentence, G/A would be more accurate as Gadd9/A.....I'm really trying to figure that out...if I would read the accurate description I would say that it would be a G-chord with an added A-note as well as an A-bassnote..something like: x00203....but I have the feeling that that is not what you mean, because you just want an A as the lowest bassnote, so why add9 would be more accurate?

However, you gave me much more to think about! A big thank you to you!





TGNeil wrote:
Hi Vanessa,

Sorry to be unclear, and I certainly didn't mean to call anybody dumb. I'm sure what I meant was the name 'slashchord' has no real musical meaning. It is just a description of how an inversion is commonly written on the page. What you see might be G/F# but what I would call it when talking to anybody would be 'G with F# in the bass'. As an example, this would be an inversion of a Gmaj7 chord, 3rd inversion to be exact. Usually I would not call it 'G major 7 with F# in the bass' because the F# is what makes it Gmaj7 and might be inclined to include 2 F#s, making it more difficult and not the result you might really want.

To get really specific, if you played G/A, the most accurate description would be Gadd9/A, but that can be unnecessarily confusing. Not to be confused with the occasionally useful teaching technique of introducing something that is intentionally confusing.

I hope that helps (all except the last sentence)...

Neil

HI,i find this intresting,, Gadd9/A,,as this something to do with 6 strings also,,when you ask a pianist to plaY a G CHORD ,he would proberly play G-B-D,,But when we strum on the guitar a G,that is G-B-D-g-b-g,, so Gadd9/A would be on the strings A-D-a-b-g..,,just a thought..and confusing,,or not..mmm,,well we have diagrams


michelew
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Sun Nov 07, 2010 4:52 pm

Nesh,

I think Neil's point is that by simply adding an A in the bass of the G the whole chord is changed and is actually a Gadd9. Since there is no A in a G chord, it is not an inversion of the G chord (as a G/B or a G/D would be) it's a more complex chord a Gadd9. However, writing it as G/A makes it easier for students (like me) to understand that the A is only in the bass and not repeated on another string.

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

Michele


Chasplaya
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Sun Nov 07, 2010 5:05 pm

I think you're right, I really get it!

I would think that /A and add9 meant adding an A-bassnote ánd another A on another string, but if I got it right, the /A shows us that the added 9 shóuld be the lowest note. Like the G/F# is actually an Gmaj7, only the maj7 (7th note on the major scale) is in the bass instead of on the, for example, first string. (that's the part that I did get!) So as for the last one, it would be more accurate to write it down as Gmaj7/F#??

Ha, you're the greatest, thx!

michelew wrote:
Nesh,

I think Neil's point is that by simply adding an A in the bass of the G the whole chord is changed and is actually a Gadd9. Since there is no A in a G chord, it is not an inversion of the G chord (as a G/B or a G/D would be) it's a more complex chord a Gadd9. However, writing it as G/A makes it easier for students (like me) to understand that the A is only in the bass and not repeated on another string.

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

Michele


michelew
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Sun Nov 07, 2010 5:22 pm

nesh16041972 wrote:
I think you're right, I really get it!

I would think that /A and add9 meant adding an A-bassnote ánd another A on another string, but if I got it right, the /A shows us that the added 9 shóuld be the lowest note. Like the G/F# is actually an Gmaj7, only the maj7 (7th note on the major scale) is in the bass instead of on the, for example, sixt string. (that's the part that I did get!) So as for the last one, it would be more accurate to write it down as Gmaj7/F#??
[/quote]

Yep. That's my take on it too.

In the above did you mean first string ( a high F#). We normally call the bass strings 5 and 6. Is it different in Holland? I know in some old Germanic countries that used to have an H. So there may be some differences in the way you describe the guitar too.

Michele


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