minor 6th

carpet
Posts: 0
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:34 am
Status: Offline

Tue Nov 16, 2010 4:46 pm

just checking i've got this right...

a minor 6th chord is a straightforward minor chord with a 6th instead of the octave?

and, the ONLY thing that makes it a minor chord in the first place is if it has a minor 3rd?

can ALL altered minor chords, like the minor 6th, be played in place of aregular minor chord?


frybaby
Posts: 0
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:03 am
Status: Offline

Tue Nov 16, 2010 4:49 pm

Sixth chords are peculiar sounding chords. It can be major or minor, augmented or diminished.

The 6th chord (major) can probably be best described as whimsical. It's the kind of chord you'd think a harp would play. Try out some of the chord formations and see if they can fit into your repertoire.

The structure of the chord is the same as the major or minor plus an added 6th note. The 6th is not flatted, this would make the chord a C 6 flat or C minor 6 flat.

The 6 chord formula is: 1 - 3 (b3) - 5 - 6


carpet
Posts: 0
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:34 am
Status: Offline

Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:06 pm

Thanks.

I'm really just concerning myself with minor chords at the moment, and in particular the minor 6th.

played with a 5th string root (for example, a Dm6), I notice the chord looks like a regular Dm (Barre), but the octave has been replaced by a 6th three frets lower (there is only one 5th played as well, or - x5x465).

So, a minor 6th IS a regular minor chord, just with the addition of a 6th.

And the only thing that makes a chord minor is a minor 3rd?

1 b3 5 6

Can all minor-type chords be used to replace regular minor chords is the question I really wanna know?

The reason behind my asking is that I am trying to learn as much as I can within the CMajor scale, but I'm trying to discover how wide I blow the whole thing open in terms of what chords are musically correct.


carpet
Posts: 0
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:34 am
Status: Offline

Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:07 pm

Hmmm....

You have I think three questions:

1 A min6-chord is a minorchord (1 b3 5) with a 6th note ( 1 b3 5 6) and it's on top of the minorchord and not instead of the 8th (I guess that's what you mean by an octave)
2 It's indeed a minor-chord because of the minor 3rd, the b3
3 Not sure what you mean with this question, if I get it, then it's actually the other way around, all altered minor chords can be played just as a minor-chord, no matter if it's a 6th, or 9th or whatever. If you don't know thát particular chord, then just play the minor chord. But like Frybaby said, the minor (or major) 6th-chord has a pretty peculiar sound of it's own. So if the song asks for a minor chord or an altered one, but the min6th, and you want to play a min6th instead, you have to listen what it sounds like and if it's appropiate to the song, then it'll be fine of course...

Hope that helps, or otherwise I'd like to hear what you mean more specifically!

Greetz'


carpet
Posts: 0
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:34 am
Status: Offline

Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:15 pm

Hey Nesh, nope, you pretty much nailed it. I know that if it sounds bad, it sounds bad, and I wouldn't use it, I'm just wondering whether or not I was theoretically correct in assuming that all minor chords (yes, including m9th, 13th etc and all the other minor chords out there) can be used as an alternative to the regular minor. I'm not concerned with how they sound in context just now, just want to make sure I'm not making any errors in my understanding of how music works.

Reason I was wondering is because in some chords, the added notes aren't part of the Major scale (for example, the 6th of an Em6 is a C#, yet the Em chord itself is in the CMaj scale - so would this still be OK?).


frybaby
Posts: 0
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:03 am
Status: Offline

Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:31 pm

And finally.....In jazz, the minor sixth chord (sometimes: minor major sixth, or minor/major sixth) Play (help·info) is frequently used. It is unlike the major sixth chord, which is often substituted for a major triad; the minor sixth plays a number of different harmonic roles. The chord consists of a minor triad with a tone added a major sixth above the root; thus in C, it would contain the notes C, E♭, G, and A. This chord might be notated Cm6, Cm/M6, Cmin/maj6, Cmin(maj6), etc. Note that Cm6 has the same notes as F9 with the root omitted, i.e. the notes F (omitted), A, E♭, C, and G. These notes form a tetrad with several enharmonic equivalents: C/E♭/G/A might be written as Cm6, F9, F9 (no root), Am7♭5, B7♭9, or B-alt. Many jazz chord charts use these chord notations indiscriminately, particularly in the choice of minor sixth versus dominant ninth chords. Thus, in some cases when a Cm6 is indicated, the F9 is in fact a better harmonic choice, i.e. closer to the composer's harmonic intent; or vice versa. Analysis of the movement of the root tone, and the present of dominant harmonies, will generally indicate which enharmonic chord is the appropriate notation choice. In some cases, the harmony is ambiguous.


thereshopeyet
Posts: 130
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:19 pm
Status: Offline

Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:38 pm

Hmmmm....let me think again....

You mention that the Em, the notes E G B, are in the Cmajor-scale...that's correct..

But, you have to think in the scale of E major, wich is E(1) F#(2) G#(3) A(4) B(5) C#(6) D#(7) E(8) If you want an Emin6, then you have to figure out the scale of Emajor first and thén you lower the 3rd, so the G# becomes a G, thén you place a 6th op top of this minor-chord that you've already build, wich is indeed the C#. So the Emin6 is E(1) G(b3) B(5) C#(6)

Do not confuse it with the Cmajor-scale, (wich is of course the formula to everything), yes the Em is the 3rd chord in the key of C, but that's really a different story..(The third chord in the key of E is G#m)

If you wanna build the chord, think in the key of it's root, when you bump into a F#m13, think in the scale of F#, wich has the same steps as every other note, whole whole half whole whole whole half etc. when you got these notes down thén you can lower, raise or add..

If you have more questions, just fire away! ;)


carpet wrote:
Hey Nesh, nope, you pretty much nailed it. I know that if it sounds bad, it sounds bad, and I wouldn't use it, I'm just wondering whether or not I was theoretically correct in assuming that all minor chords (yes, including m9th, 13th etc and all the other minor chords out there) can be used as an alternative to the regular minor. I'm not concerned with how they sound in context just now, just want to make sure I'm not making any errors in my understanding of how music works.

Reason I was wondering is because in some chords, the added notes aren't part of the Major scale (for example, the 6th of an Em6 is a C#, yet the Em chord itself is in the CMaj scale - so would this still be OK?).


carpet
Posts: 0
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:34 am
Status: Offline

Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:01 pm

Frybaby thanks for the input, but way too technical and off-topic to what i'm asking though. Although incidentally, it's Jazz chords I'm interested in.

Nesh, I get what you're saying - when I'm using a chord, i have to think about it in terms of the roots own key, that makes perfect sense. If I am playing in the key of C though, would Em6 still be correct in the context of CMaj - as a substitute for Em - in spite of the fact that it contains the C#???

From what you've said, I'm thinking I can't incorporate the Em6 chord into the C Maj scale, because it would mean a key change. Dm6 is fine, but not Em6. Therefore, only select chords of a Major Scale can be altered to a certain chord.

i'm just trying to understand the CMaj scale, and to stick within the rigid structure of it. And I know that what goes for C, goes for everything. At least now I know that the II chord of every Major scale can be adapted to a m6, but that the III and VI cant.

Nesh, you've been a great help - my thanks to you!


thereshopeyet
Posts: 130
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:19 pm
Status: Offline

Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:18 pm

You're very welcome of course! :)

I think I'm getting your point more and more...the Em6 in the context of Cmaj....

Well maybe you can enlighten mé now ;) of something wich Í'm not aware of yet, why can the II chord be adapted to an min6 chord and the III and VI don't?

carpet wrote:
Frybaby thanks for the input, but way too technical and off-topic to what i'm asking though. Although incidentally, it's Jazz chords I'm interested in.

Nesh, I get what you're saying - when I'm using a chord, i have to think about it in terms of the roots own key, that makes perfect sense. If I am playing in the key of C though, would Em6 still be correct in the context of CMaj - as a substitute for Em - in spite of the fact that it contains the C#???

From what you've said, I'm thinking I can't incorporate the Em6 chord into the C Maj scale, because it would mean a key change. Dm6 is fine, but not Em6. Therefore, only select chords of a Major Scale can be altered to a certain chord.

i'm just trying to understand the CMaj scale, and to stick within the rigid structure of it. And I know that what goes for C, goes for everything. At least now I know that the II chord of every Major scale can be adapted to a m6, but that the III and VI cant.

Nesh, you've been a great help - my thanks to you!


carpet
Posts: 0
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:34 am
Status: Offline

Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:26 pm

My my, how the tables have turned! Yes, i can enlighten you on this one, but only because you kinda gave me the answer in the first place!

Simple: The II chord (or Dm in the key of CMaj, when adapted to a m6 chord, still contains all notes from the CMajor scale. Not so for the III and VI, or Em and Am - if you were to adapt those chords to m6, you'd be bringing in foreign notes like the C# in Em6 and a F# for Am6)ergo, for all major scales, m6 only works for II. Voila.


Post Reply Previous topicNext topic