Capo Confession.

sbutler
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Wed Nov 02, 2011 5:19 pm

Ok, I'll confess that everytime Neil does a lesson that includes a capo, I just put it where he says, and play the song. Now that I've watched the latest "fly on the wall" with Kevin a couple of times, I realize that I'm lacking some basic theory here.

In that lesson, Neil references ABSOLUTE key and Relative key. Are there any past lessons in TG that deal specifically with the capo. What key you are in when you place the capo at ____?

I have a pretty good handle on the 1,4 &5 chord progression and how to transpose to another key by using that progression. I'm just confussed as to what Absolute key I'd be starting in, if for example, I placed a capo at the 4th fret.

If anyone is willing to help, I'm willing to pay attention


Scott


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Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:06 pm

Scott:

I don't know if I understand your question completely.......

I know that I transpose songs all the time with the use of a capo. Say a song is in the key of C If you put a capo at the third fret, you would then play in the key of A, since it is a step and a half away (three frets).... So you would play an A chord (relative to the capo) for the C. The tone would actually be a C, because of the capo. Does that make sense?????

I THINK what Neil means is that the actual, or absolute, key is the key of the original song. Now to make it easier to play, you may want to use a capo so you can play easier chord shapes. For me, any song that has the dreaded E/G# chord automatically gets a capo at the second fret, so I can play a D/F# chord which is much easier. By playing the D/F# with a capo at the second fret, I am actually playing the E/G#.....

Man I wish I was more eloquent..... :unsure: :unsure:

MJ

To further add to the confusion, if you have a song in the Key of C, you could play in the key of B with a capo at the 1st, the key of A with a capo at the 3rd, the key of G with a capo at the 5th, the key of F with a capo at the 7th.......... The chord shapes all change to the corresponding chords in that key, but the absolute tone stays at the original key.......


RicksPick
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Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:10 pm

Carnt wait for the propper answer

But

I think (or maybe I don't)
Putting the Capo on the fourth fret is like holding a barre chord
If you play an A (shape) whilst capo'd at the 4th,
Its just like playing a Barre (err let me count) 5th string root C#

Now then What key is C# in ( think thats what im thinking now, but if your waiting for me to work that one out, put kettle on)

RicksPick


sbutler
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Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:30 pm

So I may be seeing what escaped me before. I think I was thinking that every fret represented a key and thats why I was confused. So it would appear that I should be thinking, "how many steps/frets away is the key that I want, from the key that I'm in?"

I just watched the lesson "I still Can't say goodbye". The segment in which Neil and Matt, cornered Tommy in a hotel room, wait, that didn't sound right.


Anyway, Chets version is G's, C's and D's. So I'm thinking thats the key of G. Tommy put his capo on at the second fret, one whole step higher and said he played it in the key of A, with the G position. Now I'm thinking that makes sense as A is one whole step higher than G eh?


All along, I've been thinking that if you wanted to be in the key of A, you had to capo at the 5th fret to get A in the bass, and thats why I've been confused.


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Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:55 pm

sbutler wrote:
So I may be seeing what escaped me before. I think I was thinking that every fret represented a key and thats why I was confused. So it would appear that I should be thinking, "how many steps/frets away is the key that I want, from the key that I'm in?"

I just watched the lesson "I still Can't say goodbye". The segment in which Neil and Matt, cornered Tommy in a hotel room, wait, that didn't sound right.


Anyway, Chets version is G's, C's and D's. So I'm thinking thats the key of G. Tommy put his capo on at the second fret, one whole step higher and said he played it in the key of A, with the G position. Now I'm thinking that makes sense as A is one whole step higher than G eh?


All along, I've been thinking that if you wanted to be in the key of A, you had to capo at the 5th fret to get A in the bass, and thats why I've been confused.
Sounds like you got it there Scott.... ;) The key just tells us what chords to look for and helps us find what keys to use for solos and such.... You can play in the key of A at ANY fret I would think, you would just need to adjust the chord shapes that you use to get there.... Key of A without a capo is just that, key of A. If you put a capo on the second fret, and play the same chord shapes, then you would be playing in the key of B. If you had the capo on the second fret and still wanted to play in the key of A, you would want to drop a whole step and play chords SHAPES from the key of G. You can start to really see the advantage of the useful little tool now.... ;)

Also, sometimes you might just want to change the key of the song to match your vocal range (as gets mentioned around here a lot). If you place the capo up the neck somewhere and play the same chord shapes, you will be in a different key which will fit your voice better. The tone of the chords changes obviously as you are actually playing different chords. What do stay the same though, are the changes. You still go from a 1 to a 4 or a 1 to a 5, etc.... to keep the feel of the song the same.

MJ


sbutler
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Wed Nov 02, 2011 7:30 pm

thanks mj, I think I was confusing myself. I've understood the desire to move up the neck for ones particular voice, I just missed the point that the key at the capo'd location, was determined by how much it moved from the original key, not what fret it was.

Scott


webtvdan
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Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:42 pm



willem
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Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:14 am

so Scott you can use the capo for two reasons,,rasing up for your voice(rasing up the key) OR transpose down and play in the same key with easerrrrr chord shapes..

now i know why bands have so many guitars on stage,,


sbutler
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Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:42 am

Thanks everyone. I don't think I was far off in my understanding, just doing some over thinking.


And thanks Dan for the link. I knew I'd seen the discussion but didn't know where it was. Thats it.


Thanks again,
Scott


Chasplaya
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Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:26 pm

webtvdan wrote:
What a great link and very useful, thanks Dan


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