The Circle of Fifths

michelew
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Sat Oct 27, 2012 5:19 am

Guys, I'm looking at the same circle, I can clearly see the other chords. The easiest way is to look at for example F to G ánd it's relative minors (it's in the picture!!), in a quadrant-shape, there you have, except for the dim-chord, all the chords used in the key of C.


willem
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Sat Oct 27, 2012 5:32 am

nesh16041972 wrote:
Guys, I'm looking at the same circle, I can clearly see the other chords. The easiest way is to look at for example F to G ánd it's relative minors (it's in the picture!!), in a quadrant-shape, there you have, except for the dim-chord, all the chords used in the key of C.

Yes OKAY,BUT,,we see F-C-G his major chords in C and then D-A-E the minor chords for the key of C...it must be,,a quadrant are 3 segments right?.. :blush: :blink:


fjeanmur
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Sat Oct 27, 2012 5:54 am

Willem, it's a quadrant clockwise. But forget I called it that way, it doesn't really matter.

The relative minors of the I, IV and V chord make up the ii, iii and vi.

If you'd play it on the guitar, take any I chord on the sixth string, move up two frets for the ii (E-minor barre-shape), move up another two frets for the iii (E-minor barre-shape), for the IV go down on the same fret of the I chord, change to the 5th string (A barre-shape), move up two frets for the V, move up two frets for the vi (Am barre-shape).

So for example play G as the I chord, third fret, all the other chords will be in the third, fifth and seventh fret.

Again, if you know the notes on the bottom strings, you should be able to easily remember all the chords in any given key.

willem wrote:
nesh16041972 wrote:
Guys, I'm looking at the same circle, I can clearly see the other chords. The easiest way is to look at for example F to G ánd it's relative minors (it's in the picture!!), in a quadrant-shape, there you have, except for the dim-chord, all the chords used in the key of C.

Yes OKAY,BUT,,we see F-C-G his major chords in C and then D-A-E the minor chords forthe key of C...it must be,,a quadrant are 3 segments right?.. :blush: :blink:


willem
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Sat Oct 27, 2012 5:56 am

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

thereshopeyet wrote:
Vanessa Wrote:
Alright, still breathing!
You had me worried for a minute there Vanessa.
I though I was going to have to give you The Kiss of Life!

:woohoo: :woohoo:

But then I thought...... puppy.....

Image


willem
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Sat Oct 27, 2012 6:40 am

I'm not sure what you mean as well. I do get the bumping into a D in the key of C instead of Dm, or an A in the key of G instead of Am, but I don't wanna risk getting into that one. There is a lót to be said about it and I think also different ways how to look at it. But it does prove the point that in music there is no such thing as 'always' and 'never' (which is not true as well, haha! :laugh: :S ), there are só many exceptions or ways to mix things up, for many reasons. Often to create variety and to add something musically interesting. However, I do think such a chord usually/often resolves into the V-chord.

Also, don't forget between E and F is only a half step, while the I and ii-chord are a whole step apart. So the ii in the key of E would be F#m.

What do you mean by a song's tonic sometimes have two minors in it. Isn't it even possible to have three minors in there? Like when playing in C, there is Dm, Em and Am?



tacticaltal wrote:

I think what I see I have problems with sometimes is finding the minor cord for a particular key. I generally know that the minor is usually (always?) the next cord (minored) up from the tonic i.e, a tonic of C, the minor is Dm, G, the minor is Am. I can't get to my guitar right now (early in the AM), but I'm wondering if E's tonic is Fm or F#m? Maybe this chart, which I will refer back to in a minute will tell me that. :unsure:

HOWEVER, sometimes a song's tonic will have TWO minors in it, such as C, Dm and ??. I know I've experienced that quite a bit, and I've been left in the dark as to what chord to play next.

Also, for example, what is it called when one needs to play, for example, an A in the tonic of G, when the 1,4,5 progressions would be G, C, D? Or, if in C, we play D sometimes, when the progression is C, F, G?


thereshopeyet
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Sat Oct 27, 2012 7:25 am

Willem Wrote:
I search now my smartphone SO I ALWAYS will remember where I put it *%%###..

:ohmy:


willem
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Sat Oct 27, 2012 7:45 am

thereshopeyet wrote:
Willem Wrote:
I search now my smartphone SO I ALWAYS will remember where I put it *%%###..
I only dream about a smartphone and nightmare about using one!!

:ohmy: :ohmy:

:laugh: :laugh: Image
Image


BobR
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Sat Oct 27, 2012 9:54 am

Did I make any sense Willem or have I lost you???


willem
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Sat Oct 27, 2012 10:11 am

nesh16041972 wrote:
Did I make any sense Willem or have I lost you???


One day you may test me,,you did'nt lost me,sorry,,I think I got it,,well I know how it works but on guitar I have to practice the thing.(the circle of fifths)

Thanks Vanessa..


michelew
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Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:59 pm

tacticaltal wrote:
Haven't listened to Neil's take yet, but the lightbulb comment was that I saw this useful for "CHORD PROGRESSION". Of course, having played for 40 years, I already have that memorized, except for a few keys I don't play i.e, B and F, but I do know how to find the next chord in the key if I need to.

I think what I see I have problems with sometimes is finding the minor cord for a particular key. I generally know that the minor is usually (always?) the next cord (minored) up from the tonic i.e, a tonic of C, the minor is Dm, G, the minor is Am. I can't get to my guitar right now (early in the AM), but I'm wondering if E's tonic is Fm or F#m? Maybe this chart, which I will refer back to in a minute will tell me that. :unsure:

HOWEVER, sometimes a song's tonic will have TWO minors in it, such as C, Dm and ??. I know I've experienced that quite a bit, and I've been left in the dark as to what chord to play next.

Also, for example, what is it called when one needs to play, for example, an A in the tonic of G, when the 1,4,5 progressions would be G, C, D? Or, if in C, we play D sometimes, when the progression is C, F, G?

Hope all this is understandable. I get to rambling questions off sometimes. :ohmy: :silly:
Hi Terry,

I'm not sure whether the info above answered your questions or not. But, if you're looking to get a better understanding of music theory and how it relates to the guitar specifically, I suggest you consider the following:

- check out Neil's Acoustic Genius Series - more info than you can shake a stick at there.
- getting a copy of the following book which I found useful, it will show how the notes in a key are assembled to make the chords in a key and a stack of other stuff starting from the beginning. Just take the bits you're interested in learning now and go back and read the rest again when you're ready for it.

Tom Kolb - Music Theory for Guitarists; Everything You Ever Wanted To know but Were Afraid to Ask. - available through Amazon - (including an e version).

Good luck. I suspect it will help to remind you of all the theory you already have under your belt as well as fill in a few gaps.

Michele

Edit - The e-book I was thinking of was actually 'The guitarist's music theory book' by Peter Vogl, specifically Section 5 -The relationship between chords and scales. It has audio files built in too.


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