Bass ,drums,,maybe it is also an accented thing...and you always has to feel(or hear) the rhythm if you try to play melody or lead or something like that..
I tryed to play with a keyboard player and I did listen to the drumtrack,,first I had to find the beats,,1-2-3-4 or 1-2-3...
I really can't dance, i always sat in the corner
My 5 cents
Willem
Is rhythm natural?
Marc,
Great question that is so hard to answer. I too don't really think of the strumm pattern all that much. If I have no clue as to what it is I may look at a lesson or try and watch someone play it to get the basic idea but then I run with it. I'm not a very accomplished guitar player so I try and make the most of the using all the strings individually or groupings of them to get more out of my playing. As long as my foot is tapping to the beat and I have the song in my head I can get around with the rythem. Its all about the beat for me. Focusing on when bass strings hit the down beat and what to do with the backbeat. Not sure if I am explaining clearly enought on this but it is something that you feel. Luckily for me I can my right hand to cooperate most of the time.
MarkM
Great question that is so hard to answer. I too don't really think of the strumm pattern all that much. If I have no clue as to what it is I may look at a lesson or try and watch someone play it to get the basic idea but then I run with it. I'm not a very accomplished guitar player so I try and make the most of the using all the strings individually or groupings of them to get more out of my playing. As long as my foot is tapping to the beat and I have the song in my head I can get around with the rythem. Its all about the beat for me. Focusing on when bass strings hit the down beat and what to do with the backbeat. Not sure if I am explaining clearly enought on this but it is something that you feel. Luckily for me I can my right hand to cooperate most of the time.
MarkM
dennisg wrote:
I relate to this. I feel the music and it moves me. I feel I have good rhythm, but my timing sucks at times. I do think though that the moment we try to get out of our comfort zone, and it doesn't really matter where that is, rhythm and timing can become an issue. Flow is always interrupted when we go from comfortable familiarity to having to consciously think about everything. Interesting question Marc.Like Daryl and David, I never, ever think about strum patterns and timing issues. And the moment I DO think about these things, I feel like I've got a completely foreign instrument in my hands.
Great question, I think that there's always some Nature vs, Nurture component to it. Just look at Dennis' post of the baby twins rocking out.
Or someone growing up in a household with music on most of the day may have an advantage. Malcolm Gladwell's 10,000-Hour Rule from the book Outlliers.
I usually don't have any rhythm problems with most songs. I may not be doing the exact strum pattern that a song or lesson calls for, but everyone can recognize whats being played.
That said, I do have problems with certain rhythms and strum patterns.
Buddy Holly's, Not Fade Away, is one I've been working on. I can do the strum pattern slowly but not up to speed. I can definitely tap my foot to the rhythm but getting the strum is different.
Another song that took some time to get the strum pattern was Bob Seger's You'll Accomp'ny Me, I finally got there but like you it took a few hundred repetitons.
So there ya go, I got no answer.
But I think being able to tap you foot to the rhythm or dancing is different than finding a strum pattern even though once you get it, it feels the same.
I even confuse myself sometimes
Max
Or someone growing up in a household with music on most of the day may have an advantage. Malcolm Gladwell's 10,000-Hour Rule from the book Outlliers.
I usually don't have any rhythm problems with most songs. I may not be doing the exact strum pattern that a song or lesson calls for, but everyone can recognize whats being played.
That said, I do have problems with certain rhythms and strum patterns.
Buddy Holly's, Not Fade Away, is one I've been working on. I can do the strum pattern slowly but not up to speed. I can definitely tap my foot to the rhythm but getting the strum is different.
Another song that took some time to get the strum pattern was Bob Seger's You'll Accomp'ny Me, I finally got there but like you it took a few hundred repetitons.
So there ya go, I got no answer.
But I think being able to tap you foot to the rhythm or dancing is different than finding a strum pattern even though once you get it, it feels the same.
I even confuse myself sometimes
Max
Thank you Daryl, David, Dennis, Jason, Willem, Mark and Max
I think I have not been very accurate in my statement. In general a feel the rhythm fairly well using as Daryl and David ( got to try reggae) mentioned, the bass and the drums. I guess I also tend to over analyze as I try to emulate the original rather doing my own version (could be another problem by itself).
Where I struggle the most is when there are picked notes like sweet home alabama, long cool woman, watching the wheel, my my hey hey. I takes for ever to get the correct rhythm in these situations. But as Dennis said, people have different level of talent or easiness to play . Some needs to practice more. Maybe the other problerm is that I am not patient enough. As Jason said accepting an up trke or downstroke is not critical as long as the song keeps its identity. Good point Willem I will try to sing or hum the melody, it should help (I am sorry to hear that you stay in the corner during the dancing parties
).
Mark, I think you hit the nail on my major weakness: taping the foot. It is a great frustration for me to have difficulty with that (mind you it is easier if I stand rather sit). It seems obvious that keeping the rhtym with the foot sends the right signal to the arm (like waking). I wonder if there are exercises: again with simple song is generally no problem, when there are picked notes, I guess my brain gets an overload to focus on the arm only.
Tony, thankls for your input, the damned comfort zone. It is so easy to disturb. Mind you I do not have fun sitting in the comfort zone, I always try to challenge myself, but maybe I am shooting too high too quickly, so I struggle all the time. I could however confuse rhythm and timing but I would say that they are intimately related.
Hi Max, It is true that the twins from Dennis video are a perfect example of natural rhyhtm and they are certainly not thinking about (no thinkng brings the natural as it been mentioned before) I will look for that book. I have never tried the song you mention, but I will give it a try.
Thank you again
Marc
I think I have not been very accurate in my statement. In general a feel the rhythm fairly well using as Daryl and David ( got to try reggae) mentioned, the bass and the drums. I guess I also tend to over analyze as I try to emulate the original rather doing my own version (could be another problem by itself).
Where I struggle the most is when there are picked notes like sweet home alabama, long cool woman, watching the wheel, my my hey hey. I takes for ever to get the correct rhythm in these situations. But as Dennis said, people have different level of talent or easiness to play . Some needs to practice more. Maybe the other problerm is that I am not patient enough. As Jason said accepting an up trke or downstroke is not critical as long as the song keeps its identity. Good point Willem I will try to sing or hum the melody, it should help (I am sorry to hear that you stay in the corner during the dancing parties
).Mark, I think you hit the nail on my major weakness: taping the foot. It is a great frustration for me to have difficulty with that (mind you it is easier if I stand rather sit). It seems obvious that keeping the rhtym with the foot sends the right signal to the arm (like waking). I wonder if there are exercises: again with simple song is generally no problem, when there are picked notes, I guess my brain gets an overload to focus on the arm only.
Tony, thankls for your input, the damned comfort zone. It is so easy to disturb. Mind you I do not have fun sitting in the comfort zone, I always try to challenge myself, but maybe I am shooting too high too quickly, so I struggle all the time. I could however confuse rhythm and timing but I would say that they are intimately related.
Hi Max, It is true that the twins from Dennis video are a perfect example of natural rhyhtm and they are certainly not thinking about (no thinkng brings the natural as it been mentioned before
) I will look for that book. I have never tried the song you mention, but I will give it a try.Thank you again
Marc
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neverfoundthetime
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I remember telling you Marc about my friend Ralf who taps the 1/4 notes with one foot and the 1/8ths with the other to keep time... and that I can't keep the tapping with one foot going but I can if I tap left foot right foot back and forth. Some tap their heel, I have to tap the foot (front ball of foot) to keep time. I still think its all acquirable but much better if you do this early on in life. Anyway, I'm in and out of time all the time so I try to keep tapping...
So Marc, if you can hear and feel the rhythm, and simple songs are no problem for you, then (I believe) it's just that you are trying to push yourself too far too quickly (you impatient man you!). What you might try is to take a phrase that is giving you trouble and just play it over and over and over. Slowly, but in the proper rhythm, until your muscle memory takes over. Then move on to the next phrase. And if you have to, break the phrase up into even smaller chunks (but always play the chunks with the proper rhythm).
Marc,
I generally find that when I lose the rhythm I'm either going too fast for my skills, I'm trying to get my brain to do too many things at once that aren't automatic and overloading it and/or I haven't heard the rhythm I'm trying to emulate well enough. It's often all of the above. I find I need to slow it right down, listen to the bits I'm having trouble with until I can sing them or hear them clearly in my head when the music isn't playing and try to play them against the album at slow speed. This is especially true if the unusual timing relates to a syncopated music line or something that is off beat in some way.
Knowing how good you are, I assume that all you really need to do is slow it down and listen over and over until you have it lodged in your brain and then can translate it to your fingers.
(I've just read Daryl's comment and found that I'm pretty much repeating him, but I'll put mine up anyway).
Good luck, just slow it down and don't make your brain do so much at once.
Shel
I generally find that when I lose the rhythm I'm either going too fast for my skills, I'm trying to get my brain to do too many things at once that aren't automatic and overloading it and/or I haven't heard the rhythm I'm trying to emulate well enough. It's often all of the above. I find I need to slow it right down, listen to the bits I'm having trouble with until I can sing them or hear them clearly in my head when the music isn't playing and try to play them against the album at slow speed. This is especially true if the unusual timing relates to a syncopated music line or something that is off beat in some way.
Knowing how good you are, I assume that all you really need to do is slow it down and listen over and over until you have it lodged in your brain and then can translate it to your fingers.
(I've just read Daryl's comment and found that I'm pretty much repeating him, but I'll put mine up anyway).
Good luck, just slow it down and don't make your brain do so much at once.
Shel
Hi Michele, thanks for chipping in. I agree with the slow down approach. It is never repeated enough. When I first sent a draft of the sha song to Daryl, it is the first thing he said. So I worked a couple more weeks at slower speed and it helped a lot. I am working on a new song now that I want to learn the solo first and I am using GP set at 25% of the speed for the playback. Patience is another aspect that I have to work on.
Marc
Marc
neverfoundthetime wrote:
One beat per foot , that'll be the day As you said it is probably acquirable at any age just more difficult as you get older. But I will work on that it is a good suggestion.
Marc
Hi Chris,I remember telling you Marc about my friend Ralf who taps the 1/4 notes with one foot and the 1/8ths with the other to keep time... and that I can't keep the tapping with one foot going but I can if I tap left foot right foot back and forth. Some tap their heel, I have to tap the foot (front ball of foot) to keep time. I still think its all acquirable but much better if you do this early on in life. Anyway, I'm in and out of time all the time so I try to keep tapping...
One beat per foot , that'll be the day
As you said it is probably acquirable at any age just more difficult as you get older. But I will work on that it is a good suggestion. Marc