Rhythm and Counting Time

tacticaltal
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Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:09 am

I didn't want to hijack Marc's thread, so I come here.

Daryl posted the following to Marc in the Rhythm thread.
When I play, I never think 16th notes or up/down/down/up or anything like that. But like I've always said, I am a very undisciplined player. I simply play what I hear/feel. Sometimes it's spot on to the original recording and sometimes it's just "my style". I don't really (typically) worry about it.
Well, this is me, in a nutshell, and I am wondering how important it is that we know what a certain song's time signature is. I mean, I couldn't tell you whether I'm playing in 4/4, Double time, etc. All I know is that I think I'm playing in time (to the extent that I know it). Seeing sheet music with a Time Sig. of 4/4 means nothing to me. I have already learned the song I'm going to play by listening to it, and I go from there.

Same is true with strumming. I've never paid any attention to whether I'm playing up/down/down/up or down/down/down/down. Now, I'm sure there's some importance to this one, but in general, I seem to alternate each time I play a certain song.

Where am I missing the boat?

Terry


michelew
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Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:53 am

Hey Terry,

From what I've seen you've definitely learned how to play by feel and that's fine of course. Learning about time signatures isn't hard and it can only help you.

Neil talks about time signatures here. http://www.totallyguitars.com/target-ho ... .html#song in part 3. You may not have watched it yet. Time signatures will tell you the basic feel of a song and where the accents normally are.

There are two parts to a time signature, the top number tells you how many beats in a bar and the bottom number tells you the type of note that equals one beat. Neil explains this in his lesson. The most common signatures are 4/4, 3/4 and 6/8.

All this means is as follows:

- 4/4 (called four four) = four quarter note beats in the bar. Most of the music we play falls into this time signature. Marching music and rock music are classic 4/4 types of music - the accent is generally on the first beat of the bar (also known as a measure). There are exceptions to where the accent is of course and sometimes there are more than one accent, but the first beat is generally emphasised.

-3/4 (called three four) = three quarter note beats in the bar. This is the classic waltz feel. The first beat is emphasised.

- 6/8 (called six eight) = six 8th note beats in the bar. These are generally grouped in two lots of three and the first and fourth beats are emphasised, with the first note having a bigger accent. This feels a bit like 3/4 but it's different. Irish jigs are a classic here. House of the Rising Sun is in 6/8 and the accents on the first and fourth beats are important for capturing the feel of the song.

If you've got a metronome, you can set it up so that it accents the first note of the bar for the appropriate time signature.

Once you understand what the top and bottom numbers mean, it's a piece of cake. :) just soak it up, if it doesn't make sense now it will soon.

So in my humble opinion, it is important to know what the time signature is, especially if you're learning a song you don't know well. You will find it is mostly 4/4, but if it's not then you'll need to adjust the stresses in the song.

Good luck.

I'm sure others will add more important reasons.

Be careful not to fall into the trap if thinking that music theory and reading music is difficult and therefore you'll never be able to work it out and shouldn't try. This sort of thinking is a vicious cycle and self-fulfilling. This stuff is not hard you just need to have it explained in a way that you can relate to. That may take a few listens and a few different ways, but the pieces WILL fall into place. Just soak it up and don't resist it.

OK sermon over. :)

Shel


willem
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Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:42 am

WOW Michele thats a good explain and I think Terry can take it from there and not confusing him with more,,,I think... B)


tacticaltal
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Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:03 pm

Thank you Shel and Willlem.

Shel, I didn't mind the sermon at all. There's a lot of info there, and I have to just sit and read, and reread it. I will also look at Neil's lesson.

Anyone else wanna throw their two cents in, go ahead :)


michelew
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Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:48 pm

Terry,

You're welcome and I hope it helps.

Please be aware that time signatures are not written like fractions as I have them here. I just did that so you can see that one number sits above the other. They are not fractions, just two numbers that provide information about the song. Normally they sit at the beginning of the music staff (lines that the notes are placed on and between).

The time signatures above are referred to as four four, three four and six eight. Not three quarters for example as it looks above. I'll edit to text to put the name against it.

M.


Lavallee
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Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:49 pm

Good info Michele,

Thanks

Marc


willem
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Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:21 pm

What a great sermon Shel!! :cheer:

Where do you miss the boat Terry? Hmmmm.....i think you will know once you get ON the boat! :P

Come on, get on it and find out what it is you're exactly doing on that guitar, trust me, it'll be very interesting and it'll be way easier communicating with others when talking about playing the guitar! ;)

My two cents...

Ness


Max
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Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:33 pm

I'm going to address Rhythm & Strum Pattern portion of this question.
And I'm going to paraphrase part of my reply to Marc's thread.

Like you, I usually don't have any rhythm problems with most songs.
I may not be doing the exact strum pattern that a song or lesson calls for, but most people can recognize whats being played.

That said, I do have problems with certain rhythms and strum patterns.
Buddy Holly's, Not Fade Away, is one I've been working on.
I can definitely tap my foot to the rhythm but getting the strum is different.

Another song that took some time to get the strum pattern was Eric Clapton's Willie & the Hand Jive.
I finally got there, but i couldn't just get there by knowing the song.

I don't have any problems, with a reggae rhythm, but I think the two songs I mentioned above are a syncopated kind of African rhythm. It's just something I have to work harder at.

So to sum up my thoughts, I think being able to tap you foot to the rhythm or dance to it, is different than finding a strum pattern. But once you get it, the feeling is the same.

Anybody else have difficulties with certain songs?
Max


familyman4
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Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:34 pm

Counting time and having a really good rhythm is very important for any of us wanting to get to higher levels of guitar playing. Especially when it comes to jamming with other folks. My advice is to take the time to understand how it works and practice with every song you learn. Count out loud so you get used to hearing yourself with the one and two and three and four. Etc. etc.

Terry, you and the rest of us have made the commitment to be a part of this site so I feel like we should get every piece of knowledge that we can. This is HUGE...

On a personal note, when I was a youngster, my first guitar teacher was blind. He was still an amazing teacher because he counted (and made me count) out the beats. He also taught me how to read music and always knew when my left hand position wasn't correct, just by how the guitar sounded. Anyway, Bob has long since pasted away but his teachings will always be with me. Trust me when I tell you that a 12 year old boy just wants to play guitar & be cool, and not really learn what it takes to do it correctly. However, you will notice quick improvements with this knowledge.

For what it's worth....
Bart


tacticaltal
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Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:24 pm

nesh16041972 wrote:
What a great sermon Shel!! :cheer:

Where do you miss the boat Terry? Hmmmm.....i think you will know once you get ON the boat! :P

Come on, get on it and find out what it is you're exactly doing on that guitar, trust me, it'll be very interesting and it'll be way easier communicating with others when talking about playing the guitar! ;)

My two cents...

Ness
Oh, alright then, I will!! I've already told preacher Shel that I would. I think you two are in cahoots!! :D

I was headed to the dock, Ness, but I always end up at the damn airport :huh: (hmm, is there a song in there somewhere?)

Oh, I often wonder just what the hell I'm doing with that guitar in my hand. :D

OK, now to be serious. Where do I start? I mean, there's a bunch of info Neil has provided that I'm really interested in, such as general theory involving scales, all these terms that seemed to escape my young mind such as pentatonic, major, minor scales,chromatic AND NOW, reading sheet music.


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