Timing and counting

NKenny
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Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:56 pm

Do most people who play in a band, say like the Lumineers, Beatles or others, know if they are playing a half note, 16 note, 8 th note, etc? Strumming up, up down or whatever. Or is it that they are just talented and automatically able to play and feel it. I know to teach it Neil has to say if your counting half notes or what ever. I get totally lost as to where I am most times,very frustrating. I am one of those who has to struggle without any natural talent. Getting discouraged, time to put the guitar down for a while.

Kenny


dennisg
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Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:09 pm

Kenny,

I doubt that most rock musicians have much formal music training, so I suspect they're just playing what feels right to them. And, not to compare myself with anyone good, but I never think in terms of quarter or eighth or sixteenth notes when I'm playing. It's all by the seat of my pants.


plantman
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Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:46 pm

Kenny,
I need to work at it also. Sometimes it comes naturally, recently, Stormy Monday did for me. I always appreciate Neil's breakdown and most times I need it. For example, Learning the into to Proud Mary or in particular something like Sweet Jane - which I always thought sounded easy, that is until I listened closely and took the lesson. Times like that I wish the video's where easier to back up in small segments and replay something ten times until I get it. Your not alone. I'll sometimes look at something else when I'm really stuck and come back to the challenge. Oddly, they are sometimes easier when I take a break.
Chan


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neverfoundthetime
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Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:50 pm

Kenny, just play what you feel, don't let things like this put you in a straight-jacket. YOu will improve in counting if you are putting your attention on it but don't let it discourage you, its not worth it. Wing it. Bands do find their way of playing in time together and there is always someone leading it... but even the Beatles didn't know what they were doing in the beginning so its no shame and no must to know about the note and timing formally if you can feel it. I'm slowly learning through Neil's lessons to get better at timing even if I am not working hard at it... just comes with time and experience. I'd say motivation is more important.

Having said that, friend of mine counts 1/4 notes with one foot and 1/8ths with the other... so he tells me. I can only mange 1/4 notes but I have to tap my feet alternately, if I use one, I lose time quickly.

Chris


thereshopeyet
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Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:54 pm

Kenny

Me too...... it's easy to get lost...... everyone on the site keeps reminding me to use my metronome and start slow.
I think with discipline and much practice you develop a 7th sense of it.
It certainly doesn't come easy to me, maybe I just need to work harder at it !

Makes me appreciate musicians talent more than ever.

:S


Lavallee
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Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:16 pm

Hi Kenny, for being in a slump for at least the last 6 months as far as learning and getting better, I still like to play. To keep going I try to play against the original to give me that timing and beat following It is easier to count at the same time. I do not have any natural talent for music.It does not mean it cannot be fun.

Marc


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Music Junkie
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Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:09 pm

dennisg wrote:
Kenny,

I doubt that most rock musicians have much formal music training, so I suspect they're just playing what feels right to them. And, not to compare myself with anyone good, but I never think in terms of quarter or eighth or sixteenth notes when I'm playing. It's all by the seat of my pants.
Me too...

I think when one is starting out, it is very important to understand and work on 1/4, 1/8, 1/16 notes, but it is hard to keep that calculation in your head and try to remember the lyrics... at least it is for me.. :woohoo:

Keeping track of 1, 2, 3, 4 or whatever timing you are in is very important though. I hope that makes sense... :unsure:

J


TGNesh
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Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:38 am

Sorry to hear that Kenny... :( .....very understandable too...

As for your question.....maybe you could compare it to reading, once one learned the alphabet and is able to read words and lastly complete lines, things go automatically. You're not thinking about each and every letter, you just read the word/line. Except when you don't know the word, don't know how to pronounce it, whatever (this is just an comparising), then you'll likely need to spell it first, before you get it.

Kinda the same with music, there is an overal beat throughout a song, if you can 'feel' that and fill up the measures in any way you like, you indeed don't think about the downs and ups and about how long they last or when you play them. But if that doesn't come natural and/or the song is new to you, you gotta count to make sure you hit the strings the right way (down or up, keep that right hand moving) and at the right time. If you got that down, and repeat that like x times, eventually you'll play it without thinking at all.

And in the learning system of music, when you explain a person what to play, you need to communicate in a musical language, how else will someone else understand what you're talking about?......so yes, an understanding of quarter, eight, sixteenth notes is very important.....and yes, some just need to hear what to play and are able to 'copy' that, but even that runs out at times for many people.

Or like a band such as the Beatles, of course they had an overall natural feel for music, but even they started to learn more about music and other instruments during their careers. At one point you want to be able to read and write the language in the country you'd like to live in, which is in the land of music, it makes communication so much easier and the road you're walking on so much lighter.

I'm gonna stop my ramblings.....I really hope you'll snap out of this frustration, just know you're not alone on this. And like the others suggested, play something else for a while. It does wonders sometimes. :)

Take care,

Ness


willem
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Thu Jul 04, 2013 5:25 am

NKenny wrote:
Do most people who play in a band, say like the Lumineers, Beatles or others, know if they are playing a half note, 16 note, 8 th note, etc? Strumming up, up down or whatever. Or is it that they are just talented and automatically able to play and feel it. I know to teach it Neil has to say if your counting half notes or what ever. I get totally lost as to where I am most times,very frustrating. I am one of those who has to struggle without any natural talent. Getting discouraged, time to put the guitar down for a while.

Kenny

The Beatles eh!! Ringo kept the beat going!!! and very good too,,great tools for learning new songs are Neil and Vanessa,,,for me it was a blast to hear from Neil about ''keep that hand moving'' and all his explains on that and hitting 1/4-1/8- 1/16 notes,, come on Kenny you can strum a straight forward song,,the most difficult thing with strumming is mixing it up and keep it interesting...You can put the guitar down for a while but keep in mind he/she is looking at yah all the time!!!!

And Man,all the lessons here have something in it(thats so great),,you say I have now natural talent,,I bet you have a bit!!! ,,,

Willem


NKenny
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Thu Jul 04, 2013 8:15 am

Thanks for the encouragement everyone. I just got a little frustrated, but will pick up the guitar again soon. Great analogy Ness with the alphabet

Kenny


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