I've been on this site for a number of years now, and have enjoyed it thoroughly. The time has come to learn scales and lead playing. Several quick questions:
1. What is a good way to learn to read tab? I am looking at the tab for Melissa lead and much of what I see is foreign to me.
2. I purchased a boss loop station and this strikes me as a very useful tool. Jac van Breen has a video demonstrating the sound one can get from a loop station.
3. I have resisted getting guitar pro as I suspect it takes a long time to become truly facile with it. However, if it helps with learning to read tab and getting started with lead playing, I would take the plunge.
4. I have made an argument in the past that one does not need face to face lessons to learn guitar, given the quality of Neil's lessons. I wonder if learning to play leads is an exception to that.
jay
Lead playing
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AcousticAl
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This is something I've struggled with for a long time now.
There's a missing link to lead playing for me.. especially for improvising.
I've tried all methods- one-on-one lessons, live jams, how-to videos, books and nothing's broken through my thick skull yet.
The negative side of me says I'm too old now and have lost the ability to do what my younger brain could have done quite easily.
But I keep at it and hope it will all come together one day...
There's a missing link to lead playing for me.. especially for improvising.
I've tried all methods- one-on-one lessons, live jams, how-to videos, books and nothing's broken through my thick skull yet.
The negative side of me says I'm too old now and have lost the ability to do what my younger brain could have done quite easily.
But I keep at it and hope it will all come together one day...
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AcousticAl
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.. but to answer your last question..
One thing I've learned from a few sources is that lead playing is all about scales, licks and repetition. Being able to do them in your sleep and pull them out of your bag of tricks when you need them.
Personally, I'm thinking that I might need to go back to one-on-one lessons to get some discipline in my playing and practice regimen. That, combined with playing live with others might get me closer to where I'd like to be with lead playing.
One thing I've learned from a few sources is that lead playing is all about scales, licks and repetition. Being able to do them in your sleep and pull them out of your bag of tricks when you need them.
Personally, I'm thinking that I might need to go back to one-on-one lessons to get some discipline in my playing and practice regimen. That, combined with playing live with others might get me closer to where I'd like to be with lead playing.
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Music Junkie
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The horrible part of me is glad to know that two of the guys I admire on this site struggle with this as well.. 
I learned a bunch of "patterns" when I was taking private lessons some years ago. I got to a point where I could go through the patterns forwards and backwards and was even able to gain a little speed. I kept hoping that I would have an epiphany at some point and it would all just make sense one day. I got so frustrated, and finally just gave up and told myself I was going to be a simple strummer, and that was it.
I think Al has, and is doing some of the things that one needs to do in order to gain the knowledge and proficiency. Especially playing with others. I also think recording some progressions and looping them to practice over is a great way to do it. I have been told by others that there is no "secret" to it, that you just need to explore and see what sounds good. Obviously you want to play scales that work with the progression, but there just has to be more to it than that. If I have a progression playing, say a simple one like Em / / / C / / / G / / / D / / / and the song is in the key of G (or Em), I can use the Gmajor Scale or others. I just don't know how to use that scale and I certainly don't have the chops to play it in a fashion that is pleasing to the ear.
I learned a bunch of "patterns" when I was taking private lessons some years ago. I got to a point where I could go through the patterns forwards and backwards and was even able to gain a little speed. I kept hoping that I would have an epiphany at some point and it would all just make sense one day. I got so frustrated, and finally just gave up and told myself I was going to be a simple strummer, and that was it.
I think Al has, and is doing some of the things that one needs to do in order to gain the knowledge and proficiency. Especially playing with others. I also think recording some progressions and looping them to practice over is a great way to do it. I have been told by others that there is no "secret" to it, that you just need to explore and see what sounds good. Obviously you want to play scales that work with the progression, but there just has to be more to it than that. If I have a progression playing, say a simple one like Em / / / C / / / G / / / D / / / and the song is in the key of G (or Em), I can use the Gmajor Scale or others. I just don't know how to use that scale and I certainly don't have the chops to play it in a fashion that is pleasing to the ear.
A bit like the old days a couple of good queries in one day!
No doubt in my mind scales and learn the patterns and then the links between them. One thing learning the patterns but its another mixing them up; not just between patterns but within each pattern. I don't play a lot of lead for similar reasons you guys have already mentioned; sometimes I just don't get it! Another site I used to use a lot helped with transitions between patterns, this was a Blues site, I think Tovo used it as well PM me for the link (you have to buy it though, the package on the site that is, not the link from me lol) What this site did for me was to show you don't need to be fast and use lots of notes it explained the need for utilising rests and also bends and hammer ons etc. A good example to look at is BB King, he is very thrifty with his notes and essentially uses the BB box and patterns, plus loads of vibrato! Neil also advocates learning patterns on here .. So his Masters voice has already stated the answer.
No doubt in my mind scales and learn the patterns and then the links between them. One thing learning the patterns but its another mixing them up; not just between patterns but within each pattern. I don't play a lot of lead for similar reasons you guys have already mentioned; sometimes I just don't get it! Another site I used to use a lot helped with transitions between patterns, this was a Blues site, I think Tovo used it as well PM me for the link (you have to buy it though, the package on the site that is, not the link from me lol) What this site did for me was to show you don't need to be fast and use lots of notes it explained the need for utilising rests and also bends and hammer ons etc. A good example to look at is BB King, he is very thrifty with his notes and essentially uses the BB box and patterns, plus loads of vibrato! Neil also advocates learning patterns on here .. So his Masters voice has already stated the answer.
Just saw this. Perhaps I should have looked a bit more carefully. Will have a look.
http://www.totallyguitars.com/target-so ... riads.html
http://www.totallyguitars.com/target-so ... riads.html
jayswett wrote:
Nice find Jay. I like the different approach of using triads, I'll definitely check this out. Sooo much already on this site you tend to foget whats gone before lol! Spoiled for choice aren't we!Just saw this. Perhaps I should have looked a bit more carefully. Will have a look.
http://www.totallyguitars.com/target-so ... riads.html
Chasplaya wrote:
All I learned from this site how to play lead or improviced lead is really learn the scales or at least the scale were te music or song is in,,is the key G well learn the G scale and find it everywhere on the fret board,,maybe begin to find first all the G's but then on two strings and play it after eache other(lets say 6 string 3 fret and open 3 string)and so on(4 string 5fret,first string 3fret) and just find the others up the neck till lets say the 12fret,,,if you know or can remember this you can always find the complete scale between those two notes(G),,
Then an other is to learn patterns in boxes(you find 5 boxes on the guitar)and there is also lessons for this on this site(don't know where at the moment)
What I heard on the internet a bout patterns or boxes is that if you play all these boxes or patterns it sounds the same,,so you know were to find the 5 boxes/patterns up the neck in G it sounds the same,,each box uses the same notes(only the starting note from each box is diffrent and for the rest it are the same notes from the scale)..okay it sounds the same so thats not making music,,,the tip was then to learn first one box/pattern and try to make in that box melodic music,,if you are happy and find there many melodic riffs or melody then learn a second box and do the same(making music/melody) after that maybe you can combine them and so on..
I also think you must know the chord progression!! well okay I wrote all this stuff but never worked on this stuff
Willem
PS. made I sense?
EDIT",,maybe this is a great tool or reference book.
http://all-guitar-chords.com/
Thats really a good find(did'nt you know),,,I thought you know so I was not trying to answer on your questions,,these little chords and combining them is really awesome and you can use it for a second guitar..jayswett wrote:Nice find Jay. I like the different approach of using triads, I'll definitely check this out. Sooo much already on this site you tend to foget whats gone before lol! Spoiled for choice aren't we!Just saw this. Perhaps I should have looked a bit more carefully. Will have a look.
http://www.totallyguitars.com/target-so ... riads.html
All I learned from this site how to play lead or improviced lead is really learn the scales or at least the scale were te music or song is in,,is the key G well learn the G scale and find it everywhere on the fret board,,maybe begin to find first all the G's but then on two strings and play it after eache other(lets say 6 string 3 fret and open 3 string)and so on(4 string 5fret,first string 3fret) and just find the others up the neck till lets say the 12fret,,,if you know or can remember this you can always find the complete scale between those two notes(G),,
Then an other is to learn patterns in boxes(you find 5 boxes on the guitar)and there is also lessons for this on this site(don't know where at the moment)
What I heard on the internet a bout patterns or boxes is that if you play all these boxes or patterns it sounds the same,,so you know were to find the 5 boxes/patterns up the neck in G it sounds the same,,each box uses the same notes(only the starting note from each box is diffrent and for the rest it are the same notes from the scale)..okay it sounds the same so thats not making music,,,the tip was then to learn first one box/pattern and try to make in that box melodic music,,if you are happy and find there many melodic riffs or melody then learn a second box and do the same(making music/melody) after that maybe you can combine them and so on..
I also think you must know the chord progression!! well okay I wrote all this stuff but never worked on this stuff
Willem
PS. made I sense?
EDIT",,maybe this is a great tool or reference book.
http://all-guitar-chords.com/
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Hydroman52
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- Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2009 7:52 am
- Status: Offline
Jay,
Here are my thoughts.
1. What is a good way to learn to read tab? I am looking at the tab for Melissa lead and much of what I see is foreign to me.
I don’t use TAB to learn the song, but I do use it occasionally. It’s more of a checking tool for me. It tells me where on the fretboard the author of the TAB figures the “sweet spots” are located. This is probably where they have found the best voicings and it may be the easiest to play for them. It may even be how the original artist did it. If I am unable to figure it out by listening to and/or watching someone perform the song, I may look at different versions of TAB to see if I can get an extra clue or two.
NOTE: I know there is a lot of bad TAB out there. But bad TAB can be a good exercise in being able to recognize something is wrong, and being able to figure out how to play it correctly.
That being said, I would guess that you are referring to the TAB for Melissa that Neil put up. I have looked it over and understand your confusion. I would guess that the TAB was produced using GuitarPro software. There is no Rosetta Stone for all TAB symbolology (my spell-check tells me I just made up that word). I have looked all over the WEB for a cheat sheet on what these symbols mean (the arrows, arcs, squiggly lines, etc.), and I’m coming up with a big zero. I would suggest that you download the free trial version of GuitarPro, and then you should be able to figure out what they mean by either looking at the instructions, or doing a trial and error exercise of placing different notes on the staff to decode what they mean. Maybe someone with more time on their hands than me could put something like this cheat sheet together for these GuitarPro symbols?
2. I purchased a boss loop station and this strikes me as a very useful tool. Jac van Breen has a video demonstrating the sound one can get from a loop station.
I’ve used a looping station (Digitech JamMan). I started out using it as it was intended; to loop sections of songs for practice and create layered music on the fly. But, now we use it exclusively for playback of drum tracks of entire songs when our drummer is not at rehearsal. It works great for that with the optional foot pedal control. We have recorded many drum tracks to it and Bassman Jerry organizes and controls it. He uses the foot pedal to increment or decrement to the proper track number and then hits the play pedal, and off we go. Here is a better explanation if you are interested:
http://www.totallyguitars.com/forum/24- ... html#91766
3. I have resisted getting guitar pro as I suspect it takes a long time to become truly facile with it. However, if it helps with learning to read tab and getting started with lead playing, I would take the plunge.
I have a licensed copy of GuitarPro 6 and haven’t even installed it (had it for about 3 ½ years). I got the trial version and thought it would help me. But I got busy for about a year and then found better use of my practice time to be banging away on the guitar and watching the lessons rather than constructing the music on the computer. I just didn’t need to reproduce the music in such detail to get that much benefit from it. I would guess others have had a more beneficial experience with it, but it seems to be a tool that is spending most of it’s time rusting in the bottom of my toolbox. I would suggest that you download the free trial and check it out. I did learn a few things from trying it out, and maybe you will find it more helpful. It is quite a remarkable program.
4. I have made an argument in the past that one does not need face to face lessons to learn guitar, given the quality of Neil's lessons. I wonder if learning to play leads is an exception to that.
I agree with a qualification. With the Internet and all the avenues of instruction, you can probably eventually learn to play proficiently. Instruction from a good teacher (such as Neil, Vanessa, and others here) will shortcut you to getting there much quicker, and face-to-face contact with that same teacher will decrease the time spent even more. With me, it seems to be a combination of a number of things. First, I have the lessons and the forum at this site. That seems to be where I get most of my good information. Second most important is probably playing and songwriting with others. Third would be other instruction from the Internet (YouTube videos and other WEB sites). Then I get other instruction from books and videos from Netflix and my local library system. But, really, the most important thing is to set aside the time, have the ambition to keep practicing, and keep my enthusiasm up about it.
I have taken face-to-face lessons in the past. But they were too pricey for what my meager budget would allow at the time. Right now, I just don't think the local instructors are as good a fit for me as what I am currently doing at my skill level.
Chasplaya wrote:
Hope this helps,
Hydroman52
Here are my thoughts.
1. What is a good way to learn to read tab? I am looking at the tab for Melissa lead and much of what I see is foreign to me.
I don’t use TAB to learn the song, but I do use it occasionally. It’s more of a checking tool for me. It tells me where on the fretboard the author of the TAB figures the “sweet spots” are located. This is probably where they have found the best voicings and it may be the easiest to play for them. It may even be how the original artist did it. If I am unable to figure it out by listening to and/or watching someone perform the song, I may look at different versions of TAB to see if I can get an extra clue or two.
NOTE: I know there is a lot of bad TAB out there. But bad TAB can be a good exercise in being able to recognize something is wrong, and being able to figure out how to play it correctly.
That being said, I would guess that you are referring to the TAB for Melissa that Neil put up. I have looked it over and understand your confusion. I would guess that the TAB was produced using GuitarPro software. There is no Rosetta Stone for all TAB symbolology (my spell-check tells me I just made up that word). I have looked all over the WEB for a cheat sheet on what these symbols mean (the arrows, arcs, squiggly lines, etc.), and I’m coming up with a big zero. I would suggest that you download the free trial version of GuitarPro, and then you should be able to figure out what they mean by either looking at the instructions, or doing a trial and error exercise of placing different notes on the staff to decode what they mean. Maybe someone with more time on their hands than me could put something like this cheat sheet together for these GuitarPro symbols?
2. I purchased a boss loop station and this strikes me as a very useful tool. Jac van Breen has a video demonstrating the sound one can get from a loop station.
I’ve used a looping station (Digitech JamMan). I started out using it as it was intended; to loop sections of songs for practice and create layered music on the fly. But, now we use it exclusively for playback of drum tracks of entire songs when our drummer is not at rehearsal. It works great for that with the optional foot pedal control. We have recorded many drum tracks to it and Bassman Jerry organizes and controls it. He uses the foot pedal to increment or decrement to the proper track number and then hits the play pedal, and off we go. Here is a better explanation if you are interested:
http://www.totallyguitars.com/forum/24- ... html#91766
3. I have resisted getting guitar pro as I suspect it takes a long time to become truly facile with it. However, if it helps with learning to read tab and getting started with lead playing, I would take the plunge.
I have a licensed copy of GuitarPro 6 and haven’t even installed it (had it for about 3 ½ years). I got the trial version and thought it would help me. But I got busy for about a year and then found better use of my practice time to be banging away on the guitar and watching the lessons rather than constructing the music on the computer. I just didn’t need to reproduce the music in such detail to get that much benefit from it. I would guess others have had a more beneficial experience with it, but it seems to be a tool that is spending most of it’s time rusting in the bottom of my toolbox. I would suggest that you download the free trial and check it out. I did learn a few things from trying it out, and maybe you will find it more helpful. It is quite a remarkable program.
4. I have made an argument in the past that one does not need face to face lessons to learn guitar, given the quality of Neil's lessons. I wonder if learning to play leads is an exception to that.
I agree with a qualification. With the Internet and all the avenues of instruction, you can probably eventually learn to play proficiently. Instruction from a good teacher (such as Neil, Vanessa, and others here) will shortcut you to getting there much quicker, and face-to-face contact with that same teacher will decrease the time spent even more. With me, it seems to be a combination of a number of things. First, I have the lessons and the forum at this site. That seems to be where I get most of my good information. Second most important is probably playing and songwriting with others. Third would be other instruction from the Internet (YouTube videos and other WEB sites). Then I get other instruction from books and videos from Netflix and my local library system. But, really, the most important thing is to set aside the time, have the ambition to keep practicing, and keep my enthusiasm up about it.
I have taken face-to-face lessons in the past. But they were too pricey for what my meager budget would allow at the time. Right now, I just don't think the local instructors are as good a fit for me as what I am currently doing at my skill level.
Chasplaya wrote:
Tovo (Tony) told me about a couple of Blues sites, and I found them to be very helpful. They are very specific to the Blues, but I found that it was best to have a bit more background and basic skills before tackling some of this. They are both very good sites and I have purchased one of the lesson modules. I don’t regret it at all. It has actually caused me to do more exploring and get a bit more out of the lessons here at TG. So, I would say it has enhanced my experience here.Another site I used to use a lot helped with transitions between patterns, this was a Blues site, I think Tovo used it as well PM me for the link (you have to buy it though, the package on the site that is, not the link from me lol) What this site did for me was to show you don't need to be fast and use lots of notes it explained the need for utilising rests and also bends and hammer ons etc. A good example to look at is BB King, he is very thrifty with his notes and essentially uses the BB box and patterns, plus loads of vibrato! Neil also advocates learning patterns on here .. So his Masters voice has already stated the answer.
Hope this helps,
Hydroman52