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Being a virtual theory illiterate, apologies if this is a dumb question, but listening to a couple of songs recently, In My Life being one, I noted the use of a chord based on the flatted 7th of the scale.

The question for composers out there is: what purpose does using these chords serve?

Is there a rule of thumb for when they are used?

Do you know other examples in songs I could have a listen to, to hear its use in context?

wiley wrote:

I'm guessing here - are we talking about 'Minor' 7ths?

Ex: Gm7 = G+(major3rd)B+(perfect5th)D = triad +(minor (flatted-semitone lower)7th)F

(Embellishments)

?Passing Tones? - leading/pulling from the progression to 'lead' into...

As for songs, lots of Jazz and Blues use 7ths entirely.

Not necessarily 7th chords (major or minor) particularly, for instance, another song in E which I like which uses D (major) is Daniel Lanois' Where Will I Be?

I'm guessing the D plays a similar role as it does in In My Life (Dm7 in that case).

Again, I'm grasping at straws as soon as I start talking theory, as if you couldn't tell.

Hi Gang,

I think what Dean is asking about is chord number seven in a key, which is a diminished triad or a m7-5. But many songs and writers might use an F Major chord in the key of G. I referred to this in some recent lessons as bVII, a major chord built on the flatted seventh step of the scale. I probably even used the term "secondary sub-dominant", meaning chord IV of the real IV chord in the key.

In G for example, C is chord IV (the sub-dominant) and F is chord IV of C (secondary sub-dominant).

See Angel From Montgomery as an example.

More on this on the News tomorrow, probably.

Neil

TGNeil wrote:

Hi Gang,

I think what Dean is asking about is chord number seven in a key, which is a diminished triad or a m7-5. But many songs and writers might use an F Major chord in the key of G. I referred to this in some recent lessons as bVII, a major chord built on the flatted seventh step of the scale. I probably even used the term "secondary sub-dominant", meaning chord IV of the real IV chord in the key.

In G for example, C is chord IV (the sub-dominant) and F is chord IV of C (secondary sub-dominant).

See Angel From Montgomery as an example.

More on this on the News tomorrow, probably.

Neil

I can see I was confused re. In My Life, although the G serves the purpose there, if I understand it now.

I guess my real query is in terms of composition, and its use in a progression, I've seen it used to take you back to chord I on a few occasions, but in 'Angel' it's used before the IV chord. There can be no simpler example of its use than in 'Angel' so is it just to add interest, change the flavour, or is there a more 'formal' explanation of why it's pleasing to the ear in the theory of music?

Hi Dean, you wanna know the use of it right, I think it adds interest , they sound color full ( in the lesson they called it too ''colorfull"(Angel)) maybe it adds also beautiful harmony together with the melody, listen also to Neil Young (Fmaj7) "old man"

My two cents,, they sound great..

Willem

Flatted 7 Chord - News 19-6-2015 - 10.04 minutes in

Thanks
:ohmy:

Edit
News 19-6-2015 - Flatted 7 Chord
Sub-dominant, Secondary Sub-Dominant and Flatted 7 Chord