Stupid questions: Getting the blues ...

michelew
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Sun Nov 01, 2015 2:48 am

I've been trying to fit a chord progression to a melody I started singing yesterday. It was perplexing me until I realised today that the melody uses the blues scale.

But the thing I'm struggling with is the relationship between the notes in the chords commonly used in blues progressions (I7, IV7, V7) and the notes in the blues scale.


So as I understand it the G blues scale is G - Bb - C - Db - D - F - G (compared to a G major scale - flattened 3rd, fifth and seventh; no second (A) or sixth (E))

So ... In the triads chords we get an A, B, E and F#, which are not in the G-blues scale. If we leave out the third of the chord, we lose B, E and F#, but not A.

G7 - G B D F
C7 - C E G Bb
D7 - D F# A C


So a few questions:

- when playing blues, is it best to leave out the third? Does it matter?
- does the blues scale really only come into its own when playing and singing melodies and solos on top of the blues form. Do they exist together?


Have I just gotten something terribly wrong?

Michele - Perplexed!


Oh and I do go with the principle of if it sounds good it works, but it's good to know whether there are any rules of thumb and or theory logic behind this that I need to understand better before I trust my ears. :)


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daryl
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Sun Nov 01, 2015 8:21 am

I don't "get the blues" either but.....it is my understanding that one can "play it safe" and play a MINOR pentatonic scale (with or without the blue note) in a I IV V progression. You just need to be sure that you "land" on a proper note. That is the art of playing (and singing) the blues. But the better players know that they can also mix and match both the MAJOR and the MINOR pentatonic scales in the I IV V progression. It is also my understanding that one might play the MAJOR pentatonic over the I chord and the MINOR pentatonic over the IV and V chords.

As I am no expert, you might want to ignore everything I just said and wait for one of the gurus to help you out.


michelew
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Sun Nov 01, 2015 8:38 am

Thanks Daryl

G major pentatonic - G A B D E G (over the G chords)

G minor pentatonic - G Bb C D F G (over the C7 and D7 chords) - no E, F# or A though


Well it's making a little more sense, basically that there are times when A, B and E are fine.


willem
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Sun Nov 01, 2015 11:54 am

daryl wrote:
I don't "get the blues" either but.....it is my understanding that one can "play it safe" and play a MINOR pentatonic scale (with or without the blue note) in a I IV V progression. You just need to be sure that you "land" on a proper note. That is the art of playing (and singing) the blues. But the better players know that they can also mix and match both the MAJOR and the MINOR pentatonic scales in the I IV V progression. It is also my understanding that one might play the MAJOR pentatonic over the I chord and the MINOR pentatonic over the IV and V chords.

As I am no expert, you might want to ignore everything I just said and wait for one of the gurus to help you out.
You're absolute right, mix both up,, a sad feel and a happy feel.
B)


mark
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Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:31 am

The first thing to realise is that Blues doesn't conform to Diatonic Music theory.

In Diatonic Music theory there is only one dominant 7th chord in a key. So in the key of G the only dominant 7th chord would be D7.
but in blues music all the chords can be dominant. So you get G7 C7 and D7.

The sound of the blues is achieved by playing a minor pentatonic/blues scale against a Major/dominant chord progression.
It's this clash which is the sound of the blues.

It's not a good idea to leave out the third when playing the blues. It's the sound of the minor third against the major third of the chord which gives it the blues sound.
A lead guitarist when playing the b3rd will nearly always bend that note slightly to move it's sound towards the major 3rd.
an alternative is to hammer on from the b3rd to the major 3rd.

the blues scale as you say comes into its own when played against the blues form, but it is also used in blues rock and anything else with a blues tilt.


michelew
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Fri Nov 06, 2015 4:40 pm

Mark,

Thank you SO much. This is a really helpful explanation.

I know I've got a lot to learn in music theory and for the blues especially, but I feel like s couple of pieces of the puzzle have been moved into place and the picture is a little less hazy than it was yesterday.

Thanks!

I don't remember seeing you on the forum for a while. What are you working on and playing at the moment?

Thanks again.

Michele


mark
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Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:01 am

Hi Michelle
Glad the explanation was of some help.

I came from the other direction and found it equally confusing.
I learnt the 12 bar blues with all 7th chords and learnt that the minor pentatonic could be used over it.

it was then very confusing when the minor pentatonic sounded so bad over a pop tune and I was told I could only have one 7th chord in a key.

I haven't been the forum much recently. I've been playing a lot more electric guitar (mainly blues) recently. I still try and maintain some of my acoustic fingerpicking tunes.


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