Barre Chords... hand and arm strength?

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auntlynnie
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Sun Feb 21, 2016 7:00 am

Hi Vanessa,
My problem seems to be strength across the entire chord. If it's a strumming song, there's no noticeable problem (although I'm sure I'm missing a note here and there). But when fingerpicking, it is much more obvious. When I do manage to play the chord cleanly, my hand aches. Windy and Warm has a section (section 2, I think) that's all barre chords, and whoa, my hand gets really tired and I'm not even playing all the notes cleanly.

That's the best way I can describe it. Thanks for any advice you might have.
Lynn


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daryl
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Sun Feb 21, 2016 7:20 am

Lynn, I believe it was you who said that this happened on all your guitars and that you were going to take the "worst offender" to the luthier. A question for you....can you slip a quarter coin under your low E-string at the 12th fret? Have the coin lay across frets 11 and 12 and eyeball the gap between the coin and the bottom of the E-string. Is the gap large enough to fit a 2nd coin? Try it. Does the 2nd coin fit easily or does it lift the string slightly?


fjeanmur
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Sun Feb 21, 2016 8:41 am

daryl wrote:
Lynn, I believe it was you who said that this happened on all your guitars and that you were going to take the "worst offender" to the luthier. A question for you....can you slip a quarter coin under your low E-string at the 12th fret? Have the coin lay across frets 11 and 12 and eyeball the gap between the coin and the bottom of the E-string. Is the gap large enough to fit a 2nd coin? Try it. Does the 2nd coin fit easily or does it lift the string slightly?
So what does it mean if the coin fits easily or if it lifts the string?


fjeanmur
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Sun Feb 21, 2016 8:43 am

auntlynnie wrote:
Hi Vanessa,
My problem seems to be strength across the entire chord. If it's a strumming song, there's no noticeable problem (although I'm sure I'm missing a note here and there). But when fingerpicking, it is much more obvious. When I do manage to play the chord cleanly, my hand aches. Windy and Warm has a section (section 2, I think) that's all barre chords, and whoa, my hand gets really tired and I'm not even playing all the notes cleanly.

That's the best way I can describe it. Thanks for any advice you might have.
Lynn
Lynn,

Don't forget about Neil's "cheats" in that section.


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daryl
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Sun Feb 21, 2016 8:58 am

Lynn, I assume the 1st coin will sit on the 11th & 12th frets with a gap between the top of the coin and the bottom of the E-string. But how big is that gap? Can you easily stack a 2nd coin on top of the 1st coin without the 2nd coin touching the bottom of the E-string? Or does stacking the 2nd coin cause the E-string to lift? I was just trying to get a sense of your string "action".

I have a buddy who can play quite well and has a Taylor that has been "set-up", but when he plays my guitar he says "man your guitar is so much easier to play than mine". My action is quite low. His, not so much.


TGNesh
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Sun Feb 21, 2016 6:42 pm

Per request by Jean to move the advice I gave to Jim, who posted a Dylan song, to this thread, since there are quite a few barre chords in that song.

'Many thanks for sharing your efforts here Jim! As a teacher, it's always good to see what and how a student is working on something.

You've got some great advice from Daryl!

I hope you'll try it out. In any case, the way you're doing it now, first the bar (that's good) and then the middle finger (and the other fingers come in later). Please stop that immediately! I mean really immediately, don't ever do it again. It is already engrained in your fingers and it happens automatically. That means you have to put in some major extra work to get that out. The fastest way is. also the most boring, (which is why so many musicians don't have the patience for it), but SO worthwhile and effective, is to do as Daryl said:

Work on fretting with your fingers as a single unit. (laying down your index over the nut) Do it as slow and controlled as you can. I mean REALLY EXTREMELY slow. Wait if one of the fingers is late. The others need to WAIT until all of them are all set to actually squeeze the strings. Do this without using the strumming hand or worrying about timing (no tempo practice). Focus entirely on the fretting and getting your fingers in position and squeezing a the same time (squeezing drills). And by all means, try to do this as relaxed as possible too. Mind your shoulder, arm and avoid any tension there, because it will directly effect your fingers.

Once you can get those fingers to work as a unit, try an actual full barre chord. Put down the bar first, then the fingers as a unit. Once that works, try to put all fingers down at the same time and squeeze at the same time. Stay focussed!

Please try it out! Have the patience and dedicate a few minutes, several times a day for at least a week (or more if needed) and you'll get a new habit down which will serve you a life time.

Ness

Ps. Yes, Neil does point out to fret chords laying down one finger at the time (I do too), in the order that you need them, but I do believe he means that it would in particular apply for fingerpicking, or when you pick out the bass notes first. In other words, when you have the time to do so. When strumming you often need to fret a chord with all fingers at the same time.'


TGNesh
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Sun Feb 21, 2016 6:43 pm

I'll get back to you soon Lynn! Thanks for elaborating a little more about what's happening.

Ness

auntlynnie wrote:
Hi Vanessa,
My problem seems to be strength across the entire chord. If it's a strumming song, there's no noticeable problem (although I'm sure I'm missing a note here and there). But when fingerpicking, it is much more obvious. When I do manage to play the chord cleanly, my hand aches. Windy and Warm has a section (section 2, I think) that's all barre chords, and whoa, my hand gets really tired and I'm not even playing all the notes cleanly.

That's the best way I can describe it. Thanks for any advice you might have.
Lynn


dottmcse85630
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Sun Feb 21, 2016 7:15 pm

I recently adjusted the action on my Breedlove guitar so the strings are a bit closer to the frets and it truly is amazing how much of a difference just a slight adjustment is, now it is my go-to for doing any barre chord work for the most part.
I switch back to my Taylor and the difference is noticeable not only in how much tension I need to apply but I think that also translates to sound or poor sound. About ready to adjust it too.

So visually it may not seem much at all but a slight adjustment could mean the difference on barre chords, it did for me.

Dennis


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daryl
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Sun Feb 21, 2016 8:28 pm

Another thought for Lynn is to tune the guitar down a whole step. Perhaps that will help a bit. Another suggestion is to see what happens if you put a capo on the 1st or 2nd fret.


fjeanmur
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Sun Feb 21, 2016 8:35 pm

Lynn,

Maybe it is partially the guitar. I know my Seagull has a very low action and is very easy to play. To test out the theory, if you have a Guitar Center or another shop near you, why don't you go and try out a few guitars? Maybe this will give you an answer. If the IGC were closer, I'd let you try mine, but that will have to wait. :) :) :)


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