Lately my 'writing muse' seems to have taken the isolation route, What does come around usually ends up stuck in the ;look at again in _______days/weeks/months file. I don't throw any of it away, just file it in a different place.
So, what to do, where does inspiration come from (all sorts of places) and how do I 'recharge' myself out side of things like meditation, a nice bottle of Pino Noir, and all the other things out there. There are a'plenty, just writing them down and finding that melody - or the words to fit the melody.
I found I wanted to do two things - change the sound of the same old chords and, (I'll start a different post) - learn some simple tricks to 'embellish' my chord progressions - outside of simple hammer on and offs and such. Runs of sorts.
On the first quest -
I began a sort of test for myself, sure I can play all sorts of open chords and have learned how to play and use Barre and partial barre and even hinged barre chords. I like to call most of them 'Cowboy Chords". Y'all know - the easy ones, the 'why the hell is the fretboard so long 'cause all ya need is the first four frets' kind of things.
Well, there's always the capo - even 'partial' capos.
But that wasn't my test, it wasn't what I was looking for -
I wanted more, to be ale to 'move around' and find different textures or, perhaps a better word, 'colors' within the same song. Within the same progressions even, if that makes sense.
I began to do a daily 'chore' - sticking with mainly Major chords.
I'd find C major, in two places. Then in a third, then a fourth, you get the jive - same notes, different tone, different sustain, just flat out different.
Using the CAGED system - where can I play C major using what? The "E" shape - or the "G" shape - and so on.
Then go to G major - then D, and so on,
Then play progressions using those 'newfound' places, Started with the I-4-5, then in different keys. Add in a 3, then a 2, and so on.
which is honestly, pretty much where I'm at now. Getting those things down like I have the open chords - without thought, instantly.
My next journey/test - which I have 'poked around with' - Stay with ONLY the T-3-5 notes - C - E - G, in that order. And ONLY those three notes.
Use the first three strings, then the others in sets of three.
Then, same thing, find G major, then D major - and so on.
Then inversions - 1st inversion - 3 - 5 - T, 2nd inversion - 5 - T - 3.
Just sticking to the 5 'main' keys, that's a lot of work,
And yes, I still work on learning songs, and on other aspects.
Any insights, suggestions?
looking to change my 'sound'
I discovered that making 3 string chords can do a lot on discovering the fretboard and go from chord to chord making little runs etc,,I mean not only on the top 3 strings but all over the place.,,it started all with a lesson by Neil on Angie by the RS. Chords inversions are also in it,,but only 3 and 4 strings,,I also can see the chords forwards. More and more I found it out. Love it
Thx Neil..
A suggestion is maybe,, learn first the song and later study all the possibilitys.
Thx Neil..
A suggestion is maybe,, learn first the song and later study all the possibilitys.
I failed at guitar in many ways, but I became the Icarus of Guitar Players with my obsession to make a guitar sound like an orchestra. I leaned too heavily on big, full chords, usually at the expense of everything else.
That said, your first quest of changing the sound of your chords sounds like you want to make colorful extensions to them. Add6 and Add9 puts a little extra zing on the top. Check out some jazz chords - they have the most harmonic condiments of all. Using Neil's Chord Melody Theory - land your chords on melody notes. When using a run of passing notes to get to the next chord, try changing the octaves - I would use a bass octave coming down to a lower root chord and a treble octave running up to a higher root chord.
My next suggestion lies close to your second quest of using only the triad notes. Specifically, I found I didn't need to always play the all five or all six strings. Hitting the triad alone does in fact leave room for other things to go on. Finally, I will tell you something that gave me some clarity in developing the flow of a piece was drilling the movable chord shapes and the corresponding major and minor scales. It just seemed easier to pick out harmony notes, passing notes, and melody notes after drilling on those shapes and scales.
This is stuff I was doing for arrangements; I know you're trying to compose from scratch - infinitely more difficult I venture to guess. Good Luck Brother.
That said, your first quest of changing the sound of your chords sounds like you want to make colorful extensions to them. Add6 and Add9 puts a little extra zing on the top. Check out some jazz chords - they have the most harmonic condiments of all. Using Neil's Chord Melody Theory - land your chords on melody notes. When using a run of passing notes to get to the next chord, try changing the octaves - I would use a bass octave coming down to a lower root chord and a treble octave running up to a higher root chord.
My next suggestion lies close to your second quest of using only the triad notes. Specifically, I found I didn't need to always play the all five or all six strings. Hitting the triad alone does in fact leave room for other things to go on. Finally, I will tell you something that gave me some clarity in developing the flow of a piece was drilling the movable chord shapes and the corresponding major and minor scales. It just seemed easier to pick out harmony notes, passing notes, and melody notes after drilling on those shapes and scales.
This is stuff I was doing for arrangements; I know you're trying to compose from scratch - infinitely more difficult I venture to guess. Good Luck Brother.
I spent too long working on a similar project this week. I took the diatonic 7th chords and worked up the neck Imaj7, IIm7, IIIm7,IV maj7, V7, VIm7, VIIm7b5 using F major for 6th string roots, C major for 5th string roots, and Ebmajor for 3rd string roots. Also worked on the arpeggios for each. After a couple of hours, my wife was ready to kill me and my left thumb quit working. Too much of a good thing, I guess I'll have to pace myself better since we're spending so much time together.
Ron
Ron
Thanks for the replies, much appreciated.
Ron, I'm lucky in the fact my wife lets me do pretty much as I wish when it comes to my "hobby". Always has been, And, having a separate room to do so is a big help, yet I do spend a lot of time on our back patio, weather permitting. She even went as far to purchase a Carbon Fiber for travel, she understands what the weather can do to wooden guitars.
Dan, my friend, been way too long. My virtual hugs to you my man. Hope you and yours are well.
As for 'fail' - I've always admired your patience and your willingness to stick it out. You have been an inspiration to me and many others. Not only here at TG, but the other forums you have been a part of. I do understand your point though, I tend towards overthinking, a fault to a degree.
As for writing, one thing I do know is 'keep it simple' - write about things you know, and love. I don't know if its harder than learning a difficult song or not. Donna has said she thinks its probably the best 'therapy' she's ever seen, at least for me.
And yes, that's some of what I'm after, "Bass" runs are a part of it, and just simple yet not TOO simple little licks to prop up a breakout or the like. I don't like most simplistic licks, Playing single notes in a lick is fine for a band type of setting, but usually not for a solo act. At least in my opinion, its not what I want to do. I know a lot of country style music has those distinct bass runs, and I've worked on them with Neil, even some today. Skype is a hell of a new tool.
While the lessons are a huge part of this site and for good reason, its just better for me, on certain things, to have someone watch me, tell me where I'm going wrong. At times at least. Add the two together and...………….
My main reason to wonder off is this, I've learned to admire certain writers, John Prine and his uncanny ability's to make you fell like you're in the story. Whether its looking down on it or being there, a part of it. Summer's End is one example. And Cody Jinks, the way he changes simple little lyric licks to make them 'fit' - to rhyme instead of clash. Paul Thorn, Gretchen Peters, Lori McKenna, I could go on and on.
Silence in the right spot,
What I find (that I do) is the certain use of say, an open Gmajor. Normally, I'd just stay with that through out the song. Now, compared to a G major played on the *third fret, using the "E" shape, or even using the C shape on the *7th fret - making the sound a bit more 'closed', 'percusive', just a tiny bit 'higher' tonally. I'm trying to find just the right places to do those types of things, To push things, just a nudge. One song I wrote uses an open Gmajor in several spots, In the chorus I change that to a barre at the third, on a lyric that goes up a bit more than the others do in the same way, and the lyric is actually "Go on High" - I don't know, to me it adds something.
Either way, it had renewed my interest in learning new things, to add ideas, a palette of new and different colors to what I'm trying to do.
*the third and seventh fret is where the 'barre' would be placed.
So great to hear from you Dan.
Thanks to all of you, stay safe out there and wash those hands!
Ron, I'm lucky in the fact my wife lets me do pretty much as I wish when it comes to my "hobby". Always has been, And, having a separate room to do so is a big help, yet I do spend a lot of time on our back patio, weather permitting. She even went as far to purchase a Carbon Fiber for travel, she understands what the weather can do to wooden guitars.
Dan, my friend, been way too long. My virtual hugs to you my man. Hope you and yours are well.
As for 'fail' - I've always admired your patience and your willingness to stick it out. You have been an inspiration to me and many others. Not only here at TG, but the other forums you have been a part of. I do understand your point though, I tend towards overthinking, a fault to a degree.
As for writing, one thing I do know is 'keep it simple' - write about things you know, and love. I don't know if its harder than learning a difficult song or not. Donna has said she thinks its probably the best 'therapy' she's ever seen, at least for me.
And yes, that's some of what I'm after, "Bass" runs are a part of it, and just simple yet not TOO simple little licks to prop up a breakout or the like. I don't like most simplistic licks, Playing single notes in a lick is fine for a band type of setting, but usually not for a solo act. At least in my opinion, its not what I want to do. I know a lot of country style music has those distinct bass runs, and I've worked on them with Neil, even some today. Skype is a hell of a new tool.
While the lessons are a huge part of this site and for good reason, its just better for me, on certain things, to have someone watch me, tell me where I'm going wrong. At times at least. Add the two together and...………….
My main reason to wonder off is this, I've learned to admire certain writers, John Prine and his uncanny ability's to make you fell like you're in the story. Whether its looking down on it or being there, a part of it. Summer's End is one example. And Cody Jinks, the way he changes simple little lyric licks to make them 'fit' - to rhyme instead of clash. Paul Thorn, Gretchen Peters, Lori McKenna, I could go on and on.
Silence in the right spot,
What I find (that I do) is the certain use of say, an open Gmajor. Normally, I'd just stay with that through out the song. Now, compared to a G major played on the *third fret, using the "E" shape, or even using the C shape on the *7th fret - making the sound a bit more 'closed', 'percusive', just a tiny bit 'higher' tonally. I'm trying to find just the right places to do those types of things, To push things, just a nudge. One song I wrote uses an open Gmajor in several spots, In the chorus I change that to a barre at the third, on a lyric that goes up a bit more than the others do in the same way, and the lyric is actually "Go on High" - I don't know, to me it adds something.
Either way, it had renewed my interest in learning new things, to add ideas, a palette of new and different colors to what I'm trying to do.
*the third and seventh fret is where the 'barre' would be placed.
So great to hear from you Dan.
Thanks to all of you, stay safe out there and wash those hands!
I've lately been doing some of the stuff mentioned in here. I'm learning a lot of "jazz chords" these days, and lately I've been working on different voicings of them.
I do this mainly by playing stuff up the neck. My latest exercise: a common jazz progression that Neil recently played and talked about in the news: F/E-flat diminished/Gm7/C9. I discovered (for instance) that diminished chords in exactly the same shape can be played three whole steps higher, in an inversion. (So in this case, the E-flat diminished on the fifth rather than the first fret.) And I transpose everything to different keys and whatnot. I"m doing the same at the moment with a simpler song: "Blind Willie McTell" by Bob Dylan (which is actually "St. James Infirmary Blues). Playing it up the neck using different shapes and voicings. It's really eye-opening work. I learned a new shape for the dominant 7th chord in the second inversion (which I should have learned many years ago, like a lot of stuff I'm now picking up) which I'm applying to songs I've been playing for years and years.
I do this mainly by playing stuff up the neck. My latest exercise: a common jazz progression that Neil recently played and talked about in the news: F/E-flat diminished/Gm7/C9. I discovered (for instance) that diminished chords in exactly the same shape can be played three whole steps higher, in an inversion. (So in this case, the E-flat diminished on the fifth rather than the first fret.) And I transpose everything to different keys and whatnot. I"m doing the same at the moment with a simpler song: "Blind Willie McTell" by Bob Dylan (which is actually "St. James Infirmary Blues). Playing it up the neck using different shapes and voicings. It's really eye-opening work. I learned a new shape for the dominant 7th chord in the second inversion (which I should have learned many years ago, like a lot of stuff I'm now picking up) which I'm applying to songs I've been playing for years and years.
unclewalt wrote:
Thanks for weighing in, and your comments on the Beatles' thread as well.
Diminished chords usually function similar to secondary dominants, but rather than being V of the following chord they are vii of the following, or target chord. Another way to think of the jazz vamp you mentioned is
F F#dim Gm7 C9
And of course Ebdim and F#dim, which are understood to be dim7 really, not triads, have all the same notes in them, each 3 half-steps apart. Which is also what you meant when you said 3 whole steps apart, and the shape at the first fret repeats at the fourth fret.
Other good examples of how they are used is in These Days by Jackson Browne and Till There Was You, as done by you know who. And they probably wrote that one for Meredith Wilson anyway!
Neil
Hey Walt,I've lately been doing some of the stuff mentioned in here. I'm learning a lot of "jazz chords" these days, and lately I've been working on different voicings of them.
I do this mainly by playing stuff up the neck. My latest exercise: a common jazz progression that Neil recently played and talked about in the news: F/E-flat diminished/Gm7/C9. I discovered (for instance) that diminished chords in exactly the same shape can be played three whole steps higher, in an inversion. (So in this case, the E-flat diminished on the fifth rather than the first fret.) And I transpose everything to different keys and whatnot. I"m doing the same at the moment with a simpler song: "Blind Willie McTell" by Bob Dylan (which is actually "St. James Infirmary Blues). Playing it up the neck using different shapes and voicings. It's really eye-opening work. I learned a new shape for the dominant 7th chord in the second inversion (which I should have learned many years ago, like a lot of stuff I'm now picking up) which I'm applying to songs I've been playing for years and years.
Thanks for weighing in, and your comments on the Beatles' thread as well.
Diminished chords usually function similar to secondary dominants, but rather than being V of the following chord they are vii of the following, or target chord. Another way to think of the jazz vamp you mentioned is
F F#dim Gm7 C9
And of course Ebdim and F#dim, which are understood to be dim7 really, not triads, have all the same notes in them, each 3 half-steps apart. Which is also what you meant when you said 3 whole steps apart, and the shape at the first fret repeats at the fourth fret.
Other good examples of how they are used is in These Days by Jackson Browne and Till There Was You, as done by you know who. And they probably wrote that one for Meredith Wilson anyway!
Neil
TGNeil wrote:
Will certainly check out "These Days," an old favorite of mine, but I don't think I've ever tried to play it. And in fact I futzed around with "Til There Was You" a little just recently, because I think you also mentioned it in the news (or maybe it was a lesson?)
Ah! Thanks for that. You might have mentioned some of it in the video, but I don't remember. That'll help me work out the stuff I'm messing with, and fit it into my (rudimentary) theory study, which is part of why I"m doing all this. I'm really trying to get my head around secondary dominants lately. It's not as simple as it seems, at least for me. And thanks for the corrections -- I didn't have a guitar with me, or I would have gotten the steps right. So the inversion is actually the one in the original you played.unclewalt wrote:Hey Walt,I've lately been doing some of the stuff mentioned in here. I'm learning a lot of "jazz chords" these days, and lately I've been working on different voicings of them.
I do this mainly by playing stuff up the neck. My latest exercise: a common jazz progression that Neil recently played and talked about in the news: F/E-flat diminished/Gm7/C9. I discovered (for instance) that diminished chords in exactly the same shape can be played three whole steps higher, in an inversion. (So in this case, the E-flat diminished on the fifth rather than the first fret.) And I transpose everything to different keys and whatnot. I"m doing the same at the moment with a simpler song: "Blind Willie McTell" by Bob Dylan (which is actually "St. James Infirmary Blues). Playing it up the neck using different shapes and voicings. It's really eye-opening work. I learned a new shape for the dominant 7th chord in the second inversion (which I should have learned many years ago, like a lot of stuff I'm now picking up) which I'm applying to songs I've been playing for years and years.
Thanks for weighing in, and your comments on the Beatles' thread as well.
Diminished chords usually function similar to secondary dominants, but rather than being V of the following chord they are vii of the following, or target chord. Another way to think of the jazz vamp you mentioned is
F F#dim Gm7 C9
And of course Ebdim and F#dim, which are understood to be dim7 really, not triads, have all the same notes in them, each 3 half-steps apart. Which is also what you meant when you said 3 whole steps apart, and the shape at the first fret repeats at the fourth fret.
Other good examples of how they are used is in These Days by Jackson Browne and Till There Was You, as done by you know who. And they probably wrote that one for Meredith Wilson anyway!
Neil
Will certainly check out "These Days," an old favorite of mine, but I don't think I've ever tried to play it. And in fact I futzed around with "Til There Was You" a little just recently, because I think you also mentioned it in the news (or maybe it was a lesson?)
Aaah! Diminished chords repeat themselves every three frets. Wow. I just learned that from the preview to "Til There Was You," which I saw when it posted, but didn't really absorb. I just picked it up yesterday that they repeat at all while I was searching for different voicings (yes, with the help of a chord book, but mainly just by figuring it out). So, that's what today's playing time will be focused on.