Tony, I know i've already commented but I felt compelled to say a bit more after reading subsequent posts.
I think a couple of comments about your strumming were a just a tad harsh, should anyone go back and see where you have come from your strumming has improved, and you are obviously cognisant of it otherwise you wouldn't have experimented with varying weight of picks. So from that perspective it has improved.
When adults make a conscious decision to learn a particular aspect of something it is not easy to consider the whole picture, known fact! The fact here is you did attempt to adjust the strum whilst concentrating on the main purpose of your exercise the barres. Yeah there may still be work to do but your effort here was a significant improvement on previous strumming songs.
I felt you certainly achieved your objective to improve on your barres and at the same time also improved another aspect of your playng, the strum. From here it is work on the nuances of the strum, you could get by with where you are at, but I believe you have shown you are not one to rest on your laurels and that work will be programmed.
Another point is your dedication to your art, I certainly agree with that you are quite the inspiration there ... no question.
TOVO - Sister Golden Hair
Well Sunday for the majority of you I think...Monday morning for me. I vote to switch the weekdays and weekends around...5 days of playing guitar, 2 days of working. As my friend Michele said...same salary though!
Anyway, back to reality. Willem, Dog definitely did Sister Golden Hair, really well also. Go check it out.
BG, it was a 1.0 pick. I thought the strumming was loud if nothing else, could be your audio as you said, anyway thanks for taking a look and taking the time to comment. I don't know that we've crossed paths before so good to see you.
Al I noted that you used this song to demo your Yamaha so I assume you have it down?
Dennis, like with Bear mate I am all too happy to take on your points in order to improve. I have a good deal of respect for you both, but honestly speaking I am going to need to speak to you further on this subject of varied strumming. You mentioned practicing with a metronome which no doubt Neil would absolutely agree with and it's something I don't do enough of, but I would have thought that practice with a metronome would serve to make my timing more even, when the improvement you are suggesting is to vary the strumming? I thought Bear was talking about varying the emphasis on on certain strums. It seems you are talking about varying the timing? So overall I'm not certain what I should work on.
(I know I'm writing a large book here but you guys have taken the time so least I can do is the same)
Hey Chas. I really appreciate you caring enough about my progress to come back and comment again, thanks. It depends on what you mean by "a tad harsh". Everyone who has commented on the strumming, primarily Bear and Dennis, is doing so with the aim to help me be a better player so I'm grateful. I think that from your comment "there may still be work to do" that essentially you don't disagree so that's the most important thing for me. I just have to work out what to work on! I appreciate your acknowledgment of my improvement.
Well...I gotta say that I'm hoping Neil steps in with a video response and adds his opinion to the various ones I have here. Cheers all.
Anyway, back to reality. Willem, Dog definitely did Sister Golden Hair, really well also. Go check it out.
BG, it was a 1.0 pick. I thought the strumming was loud if nothing else, could be your audio as you said, anyway thanks for taking a look and taking the time to comment. I don't know that we've crossed paths before so good to see you.
Al I noted that you used this song to demo your Yamaha so I assume you have it down?
Dennis, like with Bear mate I am all too happy to take on your points in order to improve. I have a good deal of respect for you both, but honestly speaking I am going to need to speak to you further on this subject of varied strumming. You mentioned practicing with a metronome which no doubt Neil would absolutely agree with and it's something I don't do enough of, but I would have thought that practice with a metronome would serve to make my timing more even, when the improvement you are suggesting is to vary the strumming? I thought Bear was talking about varying the emphasis on on certain strums. It seems you are talking about varying the timing? So overall I'm not certain what I should work on.
(I know I'm writing a large book here but you guys have taken the time so least I can do is the same)
Hey Chas. I really appreciate you caring enough about my progress to come back and comment again, thanks. It depends on what you mean by "a tad harsh". Everyone who has commented on the strumming, primarily Bear and Dennis, is doing so with the aim to help me be a better player so I'm grateful. I think that from your comment "there may still be work to do" that essentially you don't disagree so that's the most important thing for me. I just have to work out what to work on! I appreciate your acknowledgment of my improvement.
Well...I gotta say that I'm hoping Neil steps in with a video response and adds his opinion to the various ones I have here. Cheers all.
Hey Den, I already said I don't see your comments as harsh. Others should know that Dennis and I speak a lot and his motivation is only to help me improve, same with Bear and Chas and everyone else who takes the time to offer suggestions for improvement. I've made it clear many times that whilst I very much appreciate kind comments I am looking for honest comments also. I always get them from him.
Dennis mate, don't stop commenting. Please.
Dennis mate, don't stop commenting. Please.
dennisg wrote:
This fact has not been overlooked by me, and I'm sure I'm not alone when I say that the site has suffered a bit as a result. Chas' point that Tony has made tremendous progress is spot on, but Tony himself has made it clear that he wants honest, straightforward criticism as a tool in helping himself improve. The members of this website are and should be proud of the supportive community that they have helped develop here at TG, but I share Tony's thought that honest, friendly criticism are as helpful as the accolades that we all enjoy when posting our videos. I would be the first to admit that I could do a better job providing more thoughtful feedback than I do.this is one of the reasons why I don't post much anymore.
Ok Lets be open about this, Giving critiques is an everyday part of my profession and is a part of my job I really consider they should not be taken/given likely, it is an art and has to be learned. Firstly, we rarely if ever get it right here and thats understandable, although of great concern to me, as few if any have been trained in the art. However, given some basic fundamentals of critique were incorrect I felt compelled to come back to my critique and mention others that I felt were off track with proper critiqueing process/methodology.
Furthermore, given I feel strongly about this and the fact this is a learning/educational site fundamentals need to be in place, as such I have spent the better part of this morning, at work in my employers time, researching for appropriate articles that fit with the style of critique required for the site and for the users. For the benefit of all concerned, we all want to learn... right? and we all want to ensure the critiques received are made with the right intention... right? and we all want the critiques to be fair...right? And finally we want the critiques to reflect what has actually been on display and that which we seek critique on...I could go on here but lets leave that at that for the time being.
Ill considered critiques have the potential to damage the learning process ( I am not saying this is the case here, but what has been mentioned prompted me to think we can do this better with guidance) There have been some critiques on the site that have left a lot to be desired and had potential to damage learners progress, Neil and Matt have made it quite clear this is an educational and learning site, therefore I am only trying to reinforce that.
If anyone wishes any pointers then I would only be too happy to help out. I am considering putting up a separate thread on the topic providing guidelines on what to do and what not.
I am answering this here in Tony's thread (sorry Tony no intent to hijack your thread) as this is where the issue has arisen, however, shall not go into depth here on the topic. SUffice to say though, one of the main considerations in critiquing is to critique the objective of the exercise and in Tony's case that was tackling barre chords, other matters that may arise should not detract from the main objective. They can be stated but care needs to be taken to ensure they do not detract from , again the main objective and overshadow the purpose of Tony's exercise.
'Tad harsh'... well maybe I could have phrased that slightly diferent, at best I meant not quite appropriate to the objective, but would that have got the juices going , I doubt it.
And Dennis, I would be more than happy to discuss this with you further, my intent is and has always been to help others and at the same time help myself by providiing critiques within my level of capability. But when basic education principles get ignored I can't ignore that, especially if left unchecked they can become down the line detrimental to a learners progress.
One of the main fundamentals of critique is also that the recipient does not have to accept one iota of the critique and the giver has to accept that. Some may not agree with me on this thread, although the majority of educators will, and other posters have the right not to agree and I accept that. If professional assistance to help others develop is not wanted then I shan't raise the matter again. (an aside I can't access pm's at work so any response will be later today)
As stated giving a critique is an art and really has to be taught and learnt, as an educational site I believe we need some guidance either from Neil or if acceptable from myself on the topic, the end objective is to improve members capability in playing guitar. And by the way whilst Neil gives great responses to videos, in the educational profession this is the third and last of the prefered means of giving/receiving critique. A tip is Personal - Peer - Professor!!
Everything said in the best interests of members
regards
Chas
PS Sorry Tony for going on, The barres are very good by the way!
Furthermore, given I feel strongly about this and the fact this is a learning/educational site fundamentals need to be in place, as such I have spent the better part of this morning, at work in my employers time, researching for appropriate articles that fit with the style of critique required for the site and for the users. For the benefit of all concerned, we all want to learn... right? and we all want to ensure the critiques received are made with the right intention... right? and we all want the critiques to be fair...right? And finally we want the critiques to reflect what has actually been on display and that which we seek critique on...I could go on here but lets leave that at that for the time being.
Ill considered critiques have the potential to damage the learning process ( I am not saying this is the case here, but what has been mentioned prompted me to think we can do this better with guidance) There have been some critiques on the site that have left a lot to be desired and had potential to damage learners progress, Neil and Matt have made it quite clear this is an educational and learning site, therefore I am only trying to reinforce that.
If anyone wishes any pointers then I would only be too happy to help out. I am considering putting up a separate thread on the topic providing guidelines on what to do and what not.
I am answering this here in Tony's thread (sorry Tony no intent to hijack your thread) as this is where the issue has arisen, however, shall not go into depth here on the topic. SUffice to say though, one of the main considerations in critiquing is to critique the objective of the exercise and in Tony's case that was tackling barre chords, other matters that may arise should not detract from the main objective. They can be stated but care needs to be taken to ensure they do not detract from , again the main objective and overshadow the purpose of Tony's exercise.
'Tad harsh'... well maybe I could have phrased that slightly diferent, at best I meant not quite appropriate to the objective, but would that have got the juices going , I doubt it.
And Dennis, I would be more than happy to discuss this with you further, my intent is and has always been to help others and at the same time help myself by providiing critiques within my level of capability. But when basic education principles get ignored I can't ignore that, especially if left unchecked they can become down the line detrimental to a learners progress.
One of the main fundamentals of critique is also that the recipient does not have to accept one iota of the critique and the giver has to accept that. Some may not agree with me on this thread, although the majority of educators will, and other posters have the right not to agree and I accept that. If professional assistance to help others develop is not wanted then I shan't raise the matter again. (an aside I can't access pm's at work so any response will be later today)
As stated giving a critique is an art and really has to be taught and learnt, as an educational site I believe we need some guidance either from Neil or if acceptable from myself on the topic, the end objective is to improve members capability in playing guitar. And by the way whilst Neil gives great responses to videos, in the educational profession this is the third and last of the prefered means of giving/receiving critique. A tip is Personal - Peer - Professor!!
Everything said in the best interests of members
regards
Chas
PS Sorry Tony for going on, The barres are very good by the way!
For the record Chas, no problem raising it here. My opinion is no one had ANY INTENTION to cause anyone any offence (or even offense).
By the way, when I posted a tune without vocals I expected maybe 10 responses. This controversy is a great way to get your video noticed!
By the way, when I posted a tune without vocals I expected maybe 10 responses. This controversy is a great way to get your video noticed!
tovo wrote:
Chas
Thanks Tony, Hope my bosses are not loggin my Internet useage lol. Further point I should make I concede most critiques are done with best intentions albeit misguided at times, due to no knowledge of how to do it properly, the folk who once would be offensive have been removed from the site, the balance are all well meaning, which I sincerely believe. Therefore, they should have no problem in receiving guidance on how to do an even better job for those members wishing to further their guitar education. If members , sincerely want to help others then I believe they would welcome the tools to do so with a better chance of success. So my point is not intended as controversial it is simply pointing out an aspect of the learning process, possibly the singularly most important I might add, that can be done considerably better than we do at present. Done well it can still be done with friendly banter and informally. And as I alluded to this is not necessarliy all down to Neil and should not be. Reiterate Personal - Peer - Professor.For the record Chas, no problem raising it here. My opinion is no one had ANY INTENTION to cause anyone any offence (or even offense).
By the way, when I posted a tune without vocals I expected maybe 10 responses. This controversy is a great way to get your video noticed!
Chas
Here's the issue, Chas: you have your own reality when it comes to giving criticism. I reject that reality and substitute my own because my reality meshes with Tony's oft-stated wishes. And while Tony has said both publicly and privately that he's grateful for the content of my criticism, you seem to feel comfortable leveling judgmental words like "harsh," "misguided," and "ill-considered." Who, exactly, are you to decide those things? Don't you find it a bit ironic that in your role as the self-proclaimed doyen of communication skills, you have absolutely no problem passing judgment on other people?
If it was your intent to disagree with me in your defense of Tony, I encourage you to just say that you disagree with me, and here's why. I have never had a single problem with anyone approaching me in that healthy way. But I won't accept you passing public judgment on the content of my posts. That's not your job. And it's not an effective way to communicate.
Chas, I think you're a good guy, and I know your heart is in the right place. But in your effort to cinch up Tony's feelings, you've hurt mine.
If it was your intent to disagree with me in your defense of Tony, I encourage you to just say that you disagree with me, and here's why. I have never had a single problem with anyone approaching me in that healthy way. But I won't accept you passing public judgment on the content of my posts. That's not your job. And it's not an effective way to communicate.
Chas, I think you're a good guy, and I know your heart is in the right place. But in your effort to cinch up Tony's feelings, you've hurt mine.
dennisg wrote:
regards
Chas
PS I can read PM's just can't reply. Forget that it seems that I don't have that ability at work either anymore...
Dennis I'll pm you tonight I can't access that function at work. My comments were generic and not specific, I did not bring up your name or anyone elses in my initial post never my intent to offend, I have never once tackled or queried anyone directly on the Forum. Your name came up as you came in later with a comment which led me to believe you may have been upset hence my offer to discuss further and offline, but even then I did not direct anything at you personally. I hear you and respect your views by the way (don't always agree but thats my right) , just as you should respect mine nothing about agreement just acceptance and respect others entitled to individual view, this is much like critiquing really you don't need to agree with the critique but accept and respect others also have a right to their thoughts; further this discussion doesn't belong here any more it has moved beyond the original intent so if you agree I will willingly discuss offline. This is an area we as members can improve for the benefit of all concerned and do so in a safer manner; more in keeping with modern adult learning.Here's the issue, Chas: you have your own reality when it comes to giving criticism. I reject that reality and substitute my own because my reality meshes with Tony's oft-stated wishes. And while Tony has said both publicly and privately that he's grateful for the content of my criticism, you seem to feel comfortable leveling judgmental words like "harsh," "misguided," and "ill-considered." Who, exactly, are you to decide those things? Don't you find it a bit ironic that in your role as the self-proclaimed doyen of communication skills, you have absolutely no problem passing judgment on other people?
If it was your intent to disagree with me in your defense of Tony, I encourage you to just say that you disagree with me, and here's why. I have never had a single problem with anyone approaching me in that healthy way. But I won't accept you passing public judgment on the content of my posts. That's not your job. And it's not an effective way to communicate.
Chas, I think you're a good guy, and I know your heart is in the right place. But in your effort to cinch up Tony's feelings, you've hurt mine.
regards
Chas
PS I can read PM's just can't reply. Forget that it seems that I don't have that ability at work either anymore...