ELP From The Beginning by skaladar

schm040
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Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:14 am


Ken,

This seems to be coming along for you really well. Since I just plain stink at cross picking right now, I can say you are looking pretty comfortable with it.

As for my feed back, you asked for it:

Now that you have a good feel for the notes of the song, try to put in a bit more expression. To me, this song wants to sound melodic in one sense but the switch to the open bass note and the chord strumming propel harmonically and percussively. So try to add some emphasis to the strumming with a few more up down 16th notes. Neil's tab shows what Neil calls the "rock strum" but note the dampened notes mostly on the fourth beat and syncopated strumming on beat 3 mostly.

I worked on this song quite a bit when it first was posted and really found the challenge between picking a strumming to be fun, but once the two are well blended, the thing really comes together.

Great first post. Well done.

MattMassachusetts


Lavallee
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Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:33 am

Hi Ken, very impressive first post you do not look nervous and seem in good control. I have not work on this song but your general playing is very good, the picking sounds fine to me as had some comments on that.

It is great that you went ahead and post

Marc


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skaladar
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Sun Feb 13, 2011 10:26 am

Oh my ... where to begin?
First please pardon me for not knowing, or recalling the first names of those who didn't add it to their reply. I know my mama didn't name me skaladar but I've used that handle forever. In a friendly venue like this I'd rather be known as Ken so if I've referred to you by just your user name I'm sorry.

Dave - Boy do I know what you mean about having a tough song in the mix of stuff to practice. Since joining TG I've felt like a kid in a candy store with all I want to do and learn. However I enjoy the challenge of tackling something tough. Thanks for the comments.

Chasplaya - You're 100% correct about the position of what I believe you to mean my left hand. Good posture has never been my strong suit and of course it's imperative when playing barre chords. Although I’m not in this piece it’s not a good habit to get into. Thanks for pointing that out. I don’t know if I agree with you about a delay between the muted open A and the next chord. That A is the first full beat of the measure(s) and the chord the second beat. It’s followed by the same chord on the ‘and’ of the 3rd beat and a ¼ rest for the 4th beat of the measure.

lueders - Trippy ... yea, I was going for that! lol ... The chorus effect on the amp tends to make it sound more distorted when recorded and processed than I expected. It's much more subtle live. I'll chalk that up as something to remember. Thanks for the kind words.

Craig - Yep, I guess the first is the hardest. Luckily with the encouragement of all the great people here it wasn't too painful. Thanks for the comments.

Tony - I rarely use any effects but for this I thought it was worthwhile to add. As I mentioned it's less obvious live. Live and learn! And yes, I do smile :-) see! ... Lots going through my mind at the time and none of it related to my facial expressions. Thanks for watching and commenting.

Michele - Smiling in videos, over rated? I recall and early video of a live performance by Grand Funk Railroad in which Don Brewer, the drummer, played the entire set with the stupidest ear to ear grin on his face I ever saw. Maybe, subconsciously, I/we are trying to avoid that. Yea, that's my story and I'm sticking to it! ... Thanks so much for welcoming me to the video posters club and the kind words of encouragement.

Bob - Hmm, perhaps the effects didn't have as bad an affect (phew, where's my grade school english teacher? She'd be proud!) as I thought when I first heard it posted. Thanks for watching and commenting.

Vanessa – Yay, I’m in the video poster club :-). Thanks for watching and commenting. It means a lot to me.

As you mention, I am struggling at times to cleanly get out of the arpeggios and back to what is actually a ½ step bend from F# to G on the 6th string. If it looks and sounds like a hammer on, pull off then there’s that much more work I need to do there since that is pretty much the signature lick of the song. I know I should be leaving the last note of the previous chord open to give my fingers time to get from what would be the 5 fret, 3rd string to the 2nd fret, 6th string but even though the mind is willing it’s matter of convincing the fingers to cooperate .. hehe

Regarding the delay, I really can’t see changing that, at least where the muted open A and following chord is concerned for the reasons I described in my reply to Chas above. There are definitely parts of the song where the metronome goes out the window but that’s not one of them. And you’re right, and very observant. I am a dislocated drummer who’s been reincarnated as a guitar player. Let me tell you, you haven’t lived until you’ve worked in a piece that is in 17/64ths time :-)

willem - I agree that it probably wasn't in my best interest to post my first video using an amp, much less an effect, and I doubt I'll be doing that again unless the situation warrants. As I mentioned above the sound is more subtle live or even played back locally. It seems to be aggravated by whatever processing is involved. This was recorded in Dolby 5.1 audio at a bit rate that is four times what youtube supports. I now see what that can do. Thanks for watching and your suggestion.

Matt – Thanks for watching and your feedback. That’s why I’m here.

There are indeed very heavy percussive elements in this piece that need to mesh well with the melodic sections to make it come true. Add to that the muted/muffled bass notes, deadened chords and general noise, for lack of a better term, that needs to be there and yes, it is a challenge and a lot to think about. I know one thing I want to do with this is to deaden the syncopated chords on the 3rd beat with a free finger of my left hand. Currently I’m palm muting that with my right hand which gets the job done but takes away from the percussive nature. I’ve played this a bazillion ways with different strumming patterns etc. but at this point I don’t want to try to impart my own interpretation on it. I have enough to tighten up as it is to get it sounding the way it should. Thanks again for your input …

Marc - Thanks for the kind words. I don't know that I was especially nervous. Perhaps a little frustrated at things going on around me and the fact that I totally blew the first few "takes".

Thanks to all for your comments, opinions, suggestions and encouragement. They are all valuable to me … TG rocks! (no pun intended)


Ken


jim56
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Sun Feb 13, 2011 10:54 am

Hi Ken,

I didn't notice wich part Chas was referring to, I meant something else, I meant for example the part (it's played a couple of times in the song) 0.53 till 0.59. You're slowing down in there, trust me, not that much, but a bit and after it you get back on track again. Do you know what I mean?

17/64ths times??? Hahaha, omg, I play the drums as well, but I have absolutely no idea of that! :laugh: ;)


cosmicmechanic
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Sun Feb 13, 2011 11:12 am

Hi Ken, glad you posted this tune in particular. It's another of those I used to play using inaccurate tab and had to put aside in order to forget the wrong way in order to better absorb the right way shown in Neil's lesson. You have inspired me to tackle it again (time permitting !)

I agree that you sure did well on this, I'll be watching the tech comments attentively.

Pierre


Chasplaya
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Sun Feb 13, 2011 12:54 pm

HI Ken re my point about going from open A to the chord, I have studied this closely, before your post as Neil made a point once about this particular piece that your hand is on its way to the chord whilst playing the A, so its not a delay its getting into position ready, its about setting yourself up ready to play what comes next so you don't find yourself rushing to the next part. Hope that explains better, as for the bit Vanessa is talking about I have absolutely no Idea lol! Might have to watch it again. I should reiterate or emphasise that I was really impressed about your playing and tackling a & straight out, sometimes the praise gets lost in the critique..

Chas


snipe
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Sun Feb 13, 2011 1:04 pm

Ken,

There is nothing I can add that hasnt already been said. As you continue to work on the song, it will smooth out. It just seems like there is no way around putting in time on the guitar. keep up the good work
Mike


AcousticAl
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Sun Feb 13, 2011 6:38 pm

Ken,

Congrats on your first (and gutsy!) upload. I think you did a great job with it. I tried "Angie" when I first found TG- I think even before they started putting numbers on the songs. :S

Your Yamaha (APX?) sounded good- but I agree that I'd like to hear it clean as well.

Looking forward to your next one!


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skaladar
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Sun Feb 13, 2011 8:55 pm

Vanessa - Ah yes, I am slowing down there a bit. I guess the switching from strumming to picking and back again makes me a little apprehensive about tripping over the arpeggios. Time to get the ole internal metronome calibrated. Thanks for pointing that out.

Pierre - I agree having an inaccurate tab can cause more damage than good. I've seen this particular song played with a number of different chord progressions but it wasn't until I found Neil's that I knew I had one that was on the money. It's good to hear you're going to take another look at it. I hope you can find the time it deserves. Thanks for watching and commenting.

Chas - Yes I know exactly what you mean about getting into position. I think I misinterpreted what you said earlier. In a way that's good because it made me take a closer look at that section. Your point is well taken. Thanks for following up with your reply.

Mike - Yep, there are no shortcuts to putting in the time. Luckily I have the patience ... time is at a premium though but as long as I continue to see steady progress I'm happy to keep working. I'd keep at it anyway even if I didn't see progress I'm just not sure how happy I'd be about it. :dry: Thanks for watching and commenting.

Al - Good eye! Yes that is a Yamaha APX500 and I'm glad you mentioned it. When I filled out the form on the new upload page I managed to put the song title in the guitar field. Not sure how I did that. In any event, I do own a vintage D'Angelico Style A. That guitar has a very sweet and well balanced tone but alas the neck is loose and may need to be reset. It was built at a time that predates truss rods and humidifiers and time has taken its toll. As a result I need to find a reputable luthier, not a guitar technician, to do the repair. I picked up the Yamaha a few months ago so I'd have something to play in the meantime. If I were playing the D'Angelico there is no doubt that I would have gone unplugged. However I find the Yamaha slightly lacking at the high end so I occasionally use the amp to take advantage of the guitars equalizer. Adding a slight chorus effect was probably not the best idea, especially considering this was my first upload, and one for review at that. Thanks for watching and commenting.

Ken


BigBear
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Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:19 pm

Hey Ken! Great job on a tough song! You are well on your way to having it down pat.

This is one of the first songs I learned through the Target program so I know it well. If I could only sing like Greg Lake.... But that's a subject for another day! LOL!

If I could make a couple of suggestions in the spirit of getting better:

1. I'm not sure if it's the effects or not but your guitar really sounds out of tune. Noticebly so.

2. Work hard on your harmonics. Make sure to place your ring finger directly over the fret and not like you are playing a note.

3. The Am9 and the Dadd11/A need to be much crisper. You really have to break them off by muting them with your pinky (on the Am9) and your ring finger (as I recall) on the Dadd11/A. Watch Neil's lesson video again about muting.

4. This song needs great feel so you really need to accentuate the notes. When you play the C-G/B-Fadd9-G series don't worry so much about slamming through the chords but rather strive for smooth, clean transitions.

5. Chas is correct, you look a bit uncomfortable over your guitar. I'm that way too but it's something to watch because it will effect hand position.

6. It might be a good idea to really slow the tempo down until you are very comfortable with all the chords, all over the neck. I'm working on another Level 7 song and I am working on it really slowly so that I get it down solid. Then when I play at tempo, and I mess up, I go back to a slower tempo. It's a head game I know, but it works!!!

Again, great work and thanks for sharing your video!

Cheers! :cheer:


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