MarkM learning to play Helplessly Hoping acoustic guitar

tovo
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Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:58 pm

Hey Mark. The playing is beautiful, easy, clear and loud. Not being familiar with the tune I found the tempo nice, I really just enjoyed the picking which I agree you have no problem with. I also strongly agree with Cori's observation on strumming and picking and it is another topic.

On the singing you have the same problem as I do so let me say right up front that nobody should take my comments as criticism, I'm confident that you don't. It's a problem I recognise because as I said, I have it myself.

I think you have all the makings of a very pleasant singing voice and parts of that were great. I just felt that you can't sing out because the key isn't right. The bits that were sounded fine, the other bits didn't sound awful, but I could hear in your voice the struggle to make them work, and I know the feeling. For me it often happens on low notes which I don't understand given that my voice is reasonably deep to start with.

I guess it's just about finding the right key. I have been doing a lot of experimenting with the capo lately, experimenting with the effect moving it up the neck has on my ability to sing the tune reasonably comfortably. I find this hard because I am always reluctant to change the original key but if I hope to sing a tune then it makes sense to find the key that suits. I don't know if you tried another half step or more, but I would encourage that experimentation.

What I do know is that your singing is getting better and better with every video Mark, so I hope you are encouraged to stick at it. I have had a lot of help from Dennis in this regard, and I saw he and others had some really useful advice.


buddy
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Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:59 pm

Wow, I have not heard that tune in a long time. You sure picked a tough one to sing but you pulled it off. Guitar is coming along as well and you will have this cracking in no time.

Bud


MarkM
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Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:15 pm

Thanks all. I really appreciate all your feedback.

Pete- Thanks!!! I should have stuck with just the playing as there were a few embellishments I could have done but I was just hanging on for dear life since I was trying to sing as well.

Bill - Thanks!! One of my favorites as well.

Bob - Thank you!! I still can't find the right sound with the guitar plugged in so I went with the mic instead.

Cori - Thank you!! I just started this fingerpicking experiment a few months ago as all I did before was the strumming songs. I do agree that some of those strummers can be pretty complicated. I'll have to break out the dred and get back to some of that so I don't take a few steps backwards as I've been focusing on picking.

Chris - Thanks!! I don't know how you and others can play and sing so effortlessly (at least to my ears and eyes)

Ness - Thank you!!! Yeah the pace may have been a bit fast. The trick for me to try and do is keep the same tempo throughout. I should have had you sing this one. The problem is (well one of them anyway) is I just have no clue as to what voice I should be using. I need alot of help in this area for sure.

Dennis - Thank you. Yes this fingerpicking has been alot of hard work for me. I still have a long ways to go. Each new song I do adds a different element to it. The first ones I did were strictly pattern playing. Nothing more, nothing less. That took me a long time just to figure out how to make all my fingers work independently. From there I've added some that add some hammerons and in this one a little walking bass line. Still not too complicated though. I still can't get my head wrapped around a song that really has no pattern or one that uses my middle and ring finger at the same time. Something you are really good at. As for the singing I'm just plain clueless. I mean I'm pretty cluelless as a guitar player but the singing just baffles me. I really want to improve because my guitar skills can't hold a song by itself so I really need to be able to sing better than I can. I don't know if its fear, bad ear, certainly tentativeness, etc....... I probably really need someone to shout "hey jacka$$!! just open your mouth and push the air through your damn vocal chords" I'm probably better at following direction then playing the guessing game I'm in now.

Marc - Thank you. For some reason today the picking worked and I really didn't have to think about it as much. I couldn't have played and tried to sing yesterday. Funny how that works.

Pierre - Yeah I actually surprised myself that I got this song in a few days. I remember looking at this song a year ago and just moved on thinking I would never get it. I'll absolutely check out that album. I love stuff like that. Ah...... Yes this will be a great sing along song as long as I'm being held up by 3 or 4 others......Hmmmmmmm is right. You read my mind.

Tony - Thank you!!! I'm glad it looks easy. Hopefully not too loud. It's taken a long time for me to get this far. No worries on the comments at all pal. I'm totally dumbfounded on singing as I mentioned above. Normally I'll try and sing along in the car or something to get used to the song. For this I didn't and as Dennis said it would have been difficult with all the harmonies. I'll have to check out Still's solo version as Ness and others have suggested. Maybe that will help. My voice, to me anyway, feels more comfortable in the low area's or the higher notes. In between screws me all up. The easiest song I sang was that Stones song which is rediculous because nobody sounds like Mick Jagger. Maybet that's what I need to do is totally throw out the original singer and not even think about singing in the same manner. Who knows. Back to the drawing board. I'll play around with the capo and see what happens. I think I really need a bunch of other singers to prop me up on this one.



MarkM


MarkM
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Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:16 pm

Thanks Bud!! I wish I had the balls to sing like you do. Just letting your voice go and really project.



MarkM


Craig
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Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:33 am

Mark,
I love that song and I thought you did a nice job. Your finger picking on that sweet guitar sound very nice. Good job.
Craig


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jcrocket
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Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:28 am

Mark -

I really enjoyed that. I really admire where you are with your fingerpicking - your hard work is paying off.

On the singing thing, a couple of points:

- as others have said, you picked a very difficult band to vocalize. I tend to shy away from CSN, even though they've always been one of my favorites, because their best work is so often based on harmonies. Props for tackling this one.

- I think singing is one of those things that, like playing, improves with repetition - both in terms of overall singing technique, and with singing a particular song. I've only been singing for a couple of years myself, and while I know I still miss plenty of notes, I think my control over my voice has improved over time - and yours will too. The tentativeness will also go away the more you sing, and become more comfortable with it. A few years ago I wouldn't sing in the shower for fear of offending the soap; now, I've become desensitized enough that it's not really a big deal singing for others.

Jeff


willem
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Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:30 am

Hi Mark, great you add the pickin again!! and i enjoyed the whole thing,,also the great advice giving in studying the piece,,for me when i try something like that i would purchase the sheetmusic(standaard written) included all the harmonies and pickout the lead part and try to play the lead notes on the guitar or keyboard to get a bit used to the pitch and intervals,,but said that i would be everywhere,,but i alway's hope it comes alright... thanks for sharing.


sws626
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Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:37 am

Hi Mark,

Very nicely played. I think you've done a great job of picking out the best of all the arrangements you reviewed. It does sound a little bit fast, but that's not a big deal to correct. The alternating bass is perfect and I can't find anything at all to fault with you treble note picking. I'm not a great CSN fan (too much syrup for my taste without the Y) but I'm going to want to learn this one now.

-Stuart

Cori, I hear you on the strumming tangent. Maybe you can start a thread on that though.


michelew
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Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:01 am

Beautiful finger picking Mark. Jack of all trades and able to master them too. Fabulous.

Michele


michelew
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Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:55 am

Hey Mark, here is the video I was talking about...at least you can héar hís voice now! ;)

For a male to sing this, it can be a bit too high (for Stills it's not really comfortable either, at least not anymore), so I noticed that you started singing this an octave lower, wich is fine, but therefor really too low for you. That's why I suggested to capo it higher so that it will suit your voice better. I also think singing this higher will help you not slipping into the other vocals. However, hope this helps!

You can also hear that his tempo is quite the same as yours, good work Mark! :cheer:




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