Absolutely!Well said GAINPDX. Some karma for you.
Blues Setup
Rick, What galnpdx said is spot on. The single biggest contributing factor to good tone is "The Player". In fact, when it comes to electric guitars, the equation for good tone is; "the Player, the amp and the instrument", in that order. Want proof? Plug a great guitar into a crappy amp and it'll sound like crap. Plug a crappy guitar into a great amp and a good player could probably work with it.
Here's another tidbit of information. You'd be surprised to learn how little "gain" (overdrive) was used by a lot of the classic rock and electric blues heroes that we've all come to know and love.
You have to play the amp as part of the instrument!
Pedals are another story and even though "I" don't use them too often, they do have their place. BUT! I think you need to get the hands/guitar/amp connection going on and find "your" tone first.
Here's another tidbit of information. You'd be surprised to learn how little "gain" (overdrive) was used by a lot of the classic rock and electric blues heroes that we've all come to know and love.
You have to play the amp as part of the instrument!
Pedals are another story and even though "I" don't use them too often, they do have their place. BUT! I think you need to get the hands/guitar/amp connection going on and find "your" tone first.
The truth in the matter is going completely unplugged ...Did Robert Johnston have an amp did he have pedals ...I don't think so.. its in the soul! If you've got it flaunt it... If you really need electric blues whats is BB's set up hmm
The way I use overdrive pedals is not so much as a source for distortion but mainly as a boost for the amp. The end result is more distortion anyway, but it comes mainly from the amp and not the pedal.
But yes, tone mainly comes from the player. Trying different picks can also make a huge difference, and it's cheap. As well as strings. Nowadays, if I'm not mistaken, LPs come with .09 gauge. I think, .10 gauge makes for a better blues tone in many cases. It may at least be worth trying. Given the short scale of a LP, they shouldn't be that difficult to play either. Of course it's some hours' work to set up the guitar properly. But you may already use .10s anyway.
But yes, tone mainly comes from the player. Trying different picks can also make a huge difference, and it's cheap. As well as strings. Nowadays, if I'm not mistaken, LPs come with .09 gauge. I think, .10 gauge makes for a better blues tone in many cases. It may at least be worth trying. Given the short scale of a LP, they shouldn't be that difficult to play either. Of course it's some hours' work to set up the guitar properly. But you may already use .10s anyway.
BigBear wrote:
I get the impression you probably want that Big stack Marshall tone, alot of over drive and slight distortion. Unless you GOT a Marshal stack your not very likely to get it. Just like your not going to get a tube amp sound from a pedal and digital amp, MAYBE but not likely. I have heard close with some like AC30 amp and it will crunch but still sounds digital compared to my tube amps.
Ill relate a example, when I got into telecasters I found many that I could go very clean to very dirty tone, I have one set up for deep swampy grit blue/country, it will push a tube amp to crunch hard. I have over sized E,A strings and pick ups are angled closer to them then the other strings. Everytime I THINK I need to try a different set of PU , I sit down and play,roll my eyes... It has more tone then my hands can bring out. It goes from surf music sound swamp blues,british rock to clean jazz already. Having a Amp that will allow those tones out helps.
My friend I spoke of before, has a 80 Les Paul custom that wont crunch on anything, it has a beautiful CLEAN classic "country" sound, if there is one. Even with a tube screamer the buckers simply wont break up a amp like single coils will. He wants that big Marshall sound with it.
Think about this, what are Humbuckers meant to do? They are meant to clean up signal, hence no crunch. My buddy has took his 1980 buckers and rewired then out of phase,turned them around, ect and it still wont crunch on a digital amp and not much on a tube amp. Just having a LP will not guarantee crunch.
One and probably the best bit of advice and cheapest I give for tone before buying pedals and amps is to make sure your pickups are set up. Bill Lawrence the pickup guru gave that bit of advice.
They come from the factory far to low to the string often. Mess around with raising them, lowering one side raising the other ect and so fourth and you might find a tone you do like, may not be the one your after but one that you enjoy and inspires you to play more and bring out the tone that`s in your fingers. Set up your pickups up , take your guitar to local store and plug into as many amps as you can, straight in.
If you find something you like that crunches straight in, a pedal will boost it, a pedal for most part will not create sound just boost and modify the sound but you got to give the pedal something to work with in the beginning..
There very best thing I have done for tone, is to put the electrics down, pick up a acoustic and play. Play hard, play often.
When one can do electric techniques on a acoustic, your there man.
Sorry for the ramble....
Its not a "fix" as nothing is broken. Everyone hears or "feels" tone differently. I know where your at and what you mean and the answer is there is no answer, atleast no answer youll find on a forum. It comes from within.galnpdx wrote:How do you know if the sound you want is amp related or pickup related? Replacing the pickups on my LP with Fralins or SD'd could cost as much as a small tube amp. How do I know if my current stock Humbuckers even need to replaced?That pedal draws tone from the guitar and is a stomp box that is going to sound different guitar to guitar or to be specific pick up to pick up. If you have a guitar /amp set up that gets some crunch already that pedal will crunch it more. If not well...
Pushing digital gear can be hit and miss.
I'm lost on this fix!
I get the impression you probably want that Big stack Marshall tone, alot of over drive and slight distortion. Unless you GOT a Marshal stack your not very likely to get it. Just like your not going to get a tube amp sound from a pedal and digital amp, MAYBE but not likely. I have heard close with some like AC30 amp and it will crunch but still sounds digital compared to my tube amps.
Ill relate a example, when I got into telecasters I found many that I could go very clean to very dirty tone, I have one set up for deep swampy grit blue/country, it will push a tube amp to crunch hard. I have over sized E,A strings and pick ups are angled closer to them then the other strings. Everytime I THINK I need to try a different set of PU , I sit down and play,roll my eyes... It has more tone then my hands can bring out. It goes from surf music sound swamp blues,british rock to clean jazz already. Having a Amp that will allow those tones out helps.
My friend I spoke of before, has a 80 Les Paul custom that wont crunch on anything, it has a beautiful CLEAN classic "country" sound, if there is one. Even with a tube screamer the buckers simply wont break up a amp like single coils will. He wants that big Marshall sound with it.
Think about this, what are Humbuckers meant to do? They are meant to clean up signal, hence no crunch. My buddy has took his 1980 buckers and rewired then out of phase,turned them around, ect and it still wont crunch on a digital amp and not much on a tube amp. Just having a LP will not guarantee crunch.
One and probably the best bit of advice and cheapest I give for tone before buying pedals and amps is to make sure your pickups are set up. Bill Lawrence the pickup guru gave that bit of advice.
They come from the factory far to low to the string often. Mess around with raising them, lowering one side raising the other ect and so fourth and you might find a tone you do like, may not be the one your after but one that you enjoy and inspires you to play more and bring out the tone that`s in your fingers. Set up your pickups up , take your guitar to local store and plug into as many amps as you can, straight in.
If you find something you like that crunches straight in, a pedal will boost it, a pedal for most part will not create sound just boost and modify the sound but you got to give the pedal something to work with in the beginning..
There very best thing I have done for tone, is to put the electrics down, pick up a acoustic and play. Play hard, play often.
When one can do electric techniques on a acoustic, your there man.
Sorry for the ramble....
galnpdx wrote:
If that guitar ain't burnin' the paint off the walls through a gained up amp, then something is seriously wrong.
galnpdx wrote:
Ahhhhhh... Ya lost me on this one...My friend I spoke of before, has a 80 Les Paul custom that wont crunch on anything, it has a beautiful CLEAN classic "country" sound, if there is one. Even with a tube screamer the buckers simply wont break up a amp like single coils will. He wants that big Marshall sound with it.
If that guitar ain't burnin' the paint off the walls through a gained up amp, then something is seriously wrong.
galnpdx wrote:
The above statement is completely wrong.Think about this, what are Humbuckers meant to do? They are meant to clean up signal, hence no crunch. My buddy has took his 1980 buckers and rewired then out of phase,turned them around, ect and it still wont crunch on a digital amp and not much on a tube amp. Just having a LP will not guarantee crunch.
"Humbuckers have high output since both coils are in series and because the magnetic circuit is low loss. Like a single-coil pickup, a humbucker induces a slight magnetic field around the strings, which in turn induce an electrical current on the coils as the strings vibrate. But since the two coils are of reversed polarity and reverse-wound and connected in series, noise and interference is significantly reduced via common-mode rejection. They get their name because they cancel out a large portion of the interference (they "buck the hum") induced by alternating current sources normally experienced with single coil pickups."
"Hum canceling pickup" = Cleaning up the signal my friend
As for my friends LP, there is nothing wrong with it. Some Humbuckers create a big fat tone, others sound like a single coil. I have a 69 thinline tele with dbl buckers that sound nothing like a out of series LP Bucker nor does it sound like a single coil,sort of a jazzy tone, a Firebird with Duncans that will tear your head off with all the crunch you need. Not all buckers sound the same but they are all meant to cancel out certain current that single coils wont. But thanks for your opinion:)
"Hum canceling pickup" = Cleaning up the signal my friend
As for my friends LP, there is nothing wrong with it. Some Humbuckers create a big fat tone, others sound like a single coil. I have a 69 thinline tele with dbl buckers that sound nothing like a out of series LP Bucker nor does it sound like a single coil,sort of a jazzy tone, a Firebird with Duncans that will tear your head off with all the crunch you need. Not all buckers sound the same but they are all meant to cancel out certain current that single coils wont. But thanks for your opinion:)
galnpdx wrote:
galnpdx wrote:
This has NOTHING to do with what happens to the signal once it enters an amplifier, processor, etc. If the the signal runs through an amp or processor that has the ability to distort that signal, then it it will become distorted. In a tube amp, the amount of distortion is largely dependent on the strength of the input signal.
Typically, Humbuckers have more output than single coils and will deliver a stronger signal to the amp, the result of which is MORE distortion, or CRUNCH. Anyone who has played both Strats and Les Pauls for any length of time, knows that a Les Paul delivers more bang for the buck in terms of crunch. This is a direct result of a higher, or "hotter" output signal.
Solid state amps and overdrive boxes are completely different. In this case, it almost doesn't matter what the source or strength of the signal is, as the end result will be distortion.
galnpdx wrote:
BUT... Consider this...
If I were to plug that Les Paul into a '71 Superlead and dime it, you'd not only hear the crunch, you'd feel it as well. In fact, I'd probably have to scrape you off the wall with a putty knife.
On the other hand... Your '69 Tele patched into a Fender Twin will almost certainly need an overdrive pedal to get any stank out of it, because by the time that amp begins to break up on its own, you'd be stone deaf.
At any rate... I hope this helps and thanks for stopping by.
Okay...That part is mostly right. Then again, Copying something verbatim from Wikipedia still doesn't mean that you understand it."Humbuckers have high output since both coils are in series and because the magnetic circuit is low loss. Like a single-coil pickup, a humbucker induces a slight magnetic field around the strings, which in turn induce an electrical current on the coils as the strings vibrate. But since the two coils are of reversed polarity and reverse-wound and connected in series, noise and interference is significantly reduced via common-mode rejection. They get their name because they cancel out a large portion of the interference (they "buck the hum") induced by alternating current sources normally experienced with single coil pickups."
galnpdx wrote:
Cleaning up the signal is a bad choice of words and one possible explanation for your confusion. They cancel out the low frequency hum. That's all."Hum canceling pickup" = Cleaning up the signal my friend
This has NOTHING to do with what happens to the signal once it enters an amplifier, processor, etc. If the the signal runs through an amp or processor that has the ability to distort that signal, then it it will become distorted. In a tube amp, the amount of distortion is largely dependent on the strength of the input signal.
Typically, Humbuckers have more output than single coils and will deliver a stronger signal to the amp, the result of which is MORE distortion, or CRUNCH. Anyone who has played both Strats and Les Pauls for any length of time, knows that a Les Paul delivers more bang for the buck in terms of crunch. This is a direct result of a higher, or "hotter" output signal.
Solid state amps and overdrive boxes are completely different. In this case, it almost doesn't matter what the source or strength of the signal is, as the end result will be distortion.
galnpdx wrote:
Look, "My Friend", without knowing what kind of amp you're using and how you're setting it up, it's hard to know what you are doing wrong.As for my friends LP, there is nothing wrong with it. Some Humbuckers create a big fat tone, others sound like a single coil. I have a 69 thinline tele with dbl buckers that sound nothing like a out of series LP Bucker nor does it sound like a single coil,sort of a jazzy tone, a Firebird with Duncans that will tear your head off with all the crunch you need. Not all buckers sound the same but they are all meant to cancel out certain current that single coils wont. But thanks for your opinion:)
BUT... Consider this...
If I were to plug that Les Paul into a '71 Superlead and dime it, you'd not only hear the crunch, you'd feel it as well. In fact, I'd probably have to scrape you off the wall with a putty knife.
On the other hand... Your '69 Tele patched into a Fender Twin will almost certainly need an overdrive pedal to get any stank out of it, because by the time that amp begins to break up on its own, you'd be stone deaf.
At any rate... I hope this helps and thanks for stopping by.
Humbuckers don't sound like single coils. Otherwise there wouldn't be any single coils on any guitars anymore.
Kenny said it, humbuckers usually have a higher output than single coils (although there are some juicy single coils around, too). While they do get rid of the hum, they still crunch more easily than single coils. If you switch from a single coil to a humbucker without changing anything else, you'll get a more heavily distorted sound. That's why so many modern Strats have humbuckers in the bridge position, so one can get a high gain lead sound.
But the point of adjusting pick-up height is a good one. Don't overdo it, though, or the magnetic field will interfere with the string oscillation.
Anyway, we're getting a bit off track here, I think. The thread is about a blues setup, and I don't think anybody's looking for that "big Marshall tone", unless they want to do Gary Moore.
Kenny said it, humbuckers usually have a higher output than single coils (although there are some juicy single coils around, too). While they do get rid of the hum, they still crunch more easily than single coils. If you switch from a single coil to a humbucker without changing anything else, you'll get a more heavily distorted sound. That's why so many modern Strats have humbuckers in the bridge position, so one can get a high gain lead sound.
But the point of adjusting pick-up height is a good one. Don't overdo it, though, or the magnetic field will interfere with the string oscillation.
Anyway, we're getting a bit off track here, I think. The thread is about a blues setup, and I don't think anybody's looking for that "big Marshall tone", unless they want to do Gary Moore.
richardk wrote:
Oh... For those who may not know, and before I confuse this topic any further, this might be a good time to point out that P90 single coils are NOT the same animal as a typical Strat single coil.
Ya got that right! Actually, my P90 Lester is my number one axe.(although there are some juicy single coils around, too)
Oh... For those who may not know, and before I confuse this topic any further, this might be a good time to point out that P90 single coils are NOT the same animal as a typical Strat single coil.