Bridges

dennisg
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Wed Nov 11, 2009 3:17 pm

I was stringing my new guitar a couple of weeks ago, and every time I started to tighten my A string, the bridge peg would pop out. That got me wondering: why are bridges on steel-string guitars designed so that the little nut at the end of the string has to get shoved down a hole, then held in place by a peg? Why aren't they designed with six horizontal holes drilled through the bridge so that we feed the string through the hole, then the small hole prevents the large nut from going through? Is there some technical or practical reason this can't be done? Nylon-string guitars have horizontal holes.

- Dennis (pondering his bridge hole)


BigBear
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Wed Nov 11, 2009 3:32 pm

Dennis- I think you mean why don't acoustics have bridges like a electric guitar right? My sense is that acoustics were constructed with only two things holding them together, glue and friction. Everything on an acoustic could be glued or wedged together and the pins on the bridge are true wedge/friction connections.

Nowadays, guitar makers use all kinds of screws, bolts, and other materials to build modern guitars. For example, Taylor no longer uses a dovetail connection between neck and body (another friction/wedge connection). Instead they use a bolt-on connection because it gives them much more flexibility to make adjustments in alignment of the neck.

There is no question that luthiers could now use a drilled-thru string set-up but I suspect the traditional method still works fine, there are millions of dollars worth of strings in the system and there simply isn't enough demand to make the changes you suggest!

Cheers!! :cheer:


rcsnydley
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Wed Nov 11, 2009 3:43 pm

I also suspect it may have to do with transference of string vibration to the bridge and guitar top.

Ric


mmmbldo
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Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:24 pm

Actually, some guitars are made with string-through type bridges. Ovation is one that comes to mind. I have seen others but can't recall the makes right now. I also can't see why this isn't a good alternative. My guess is that it is easier/faster/cheaper to make guitars with the standard type.


goldleaf
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Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:37 pm

One reason is probably consmetics, the way the strings are held in place with the pins you don't see the twisted end of the string. Sounds like a good excuse to replace your pins with an upgrade to ebony or bone or if you want to spend more walrus or mammoth. You can find a lot of these parts reasonably priced at Muary's store on-line and it definitely can improve the sound of your guitar for starting around $20. Gary

www.maurysmusic.com/

Also, I think most acoustics have the strings held in place with Pins so the string coming out of the pin hole isn't really pulling the back of the bridge up which would make it more likely to seperate from the guitar top. With the normal string attachment the strings actually go over the bridge and saddle forcing the saddle down on the guitar top for better transfer of vibration and sound. I wouldn't want the strings pulling on the back of my bridge through a small hole. There would be pulling stress on the bridge constantly and I don't think that would be good.


quincy451
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Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:26 pm

I agree with Gary on this issue. For the record my first acoustic guitar had steel strings and a bridge similar to a nylon guitar. It was much easier when restringing the guitar. I liked that. You can't imagine how I felt with my modern steel string when I realized what they had done. That first steel string guitar was also joined at the 12th fret without a cutaway. I had the guitar for over 10 years. I played it heavily for the first couple years. About the only problem I had with the guitar was the spacers for the tuning pegs where plastic. I switched to nylon strings after about 6 months. But the tuners still could not hold up over time. I had no bridge problems with the guitar. But I did cut the tension by about 50% when I switched the strings. Yes I regret that I still don't have the guitar. Swapping out the tuners would have been easy.

So it goes.


reiver
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Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:09 pm

Dennis

I think you'll find that many of the new Takamines have just such a bridge arangement. Looking at their catalogue it appears that all of their Natural and Supernatural range, some of the Santa Fe and even some signature models have a feed thro' bridge, with the string ends concealed by a recess in the bridge. Quite neat.

r


dennisg
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Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:15 pm

Reiver,

Thanks. I checked out the Takamines. They appear to have the kind of bridge I described. The guitar industry's slowness to adopt new technologies reminds me of the wine industry (I used to be a wine journalist and a retailer) which resists all divergences from tradition for as long as possible. You know what it's taken to get many wineries to use synthetic corks -- even though natural corks have been found to be the cause of wine spoilage, in many cases? It took some of the heavy-hitters in the industry (like Mondavi) to adopt new techniques and procedures. Maybe that's also the case in the guitar industry. Maybe someone like Taylor or Martin has to introduce a bolt-on neck or a string-thru bridge before other companies will feel it's been blessed by the guitar gods.

Bear,

As always, I enjoy your posts. I'm a little confused by your statement about the investment in guitar strings, probably because I didn't make myself clear. I didn't mean that we should invent a new kind of string to replace all the ones in existence. Conventional strings would work fine with a string-thru bridge, especially, as Reiver observed with the Takamines, if the bridge is recessed to hide the end of the string.

I enjoy bringing up these issues with you kind folks because I always get thoughtful, heartfelt responses. Thanks. I appreciate it.

- Dennis (a sunny day in Seattle)


goldleaf
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Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:29 pm

Dennis, I agree with your general premise on many things, but I think there is a reason that "MOST" of the well known acoustic guitars have the strings starting below the bridge and simply held in place with Pins. I think that setup causes the most pressure down on the bridge and saddle which would cause the best connection between the strings vibrating and the guitars top which is fundamental to getting good sound out of an acoustic guitar. No doubt a bridge could be engineered to compensate some how but I don't think you could get any better sound so "if it works why fix it'. That would be my guess why the general guitar industry hasn't changed the way they use pins to hold the strings in place. In addition, the materials the Pins are made of has an effect on the sound of the guitar because the point where the string is held in place by the pin is another point of contact with the guitar top and therefore is another place where the strings vibration can be transfered to the guitar top. I think?? Gary


dennisg
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Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:41 pm

Gary,

I think you make a good point about not reinventing the wheel. I suppose that's the same point most people in the guitar industry made when Taylor introduced the NT neck. Yeah, there's no groundswell of dissatisfaction about the way modern bridges are configured. But there wasn't in the past about guitar necks either. I can only think of one really good reason why guitar makers should redesign bridges, and that's because it'll make it easier for players to swap strings. All other things being equal, I'd buy a guitar with a string- thru bridge.

- Dennis (in Seattle)


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