Best way to raise a saddle slightly

michelew
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Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:23 am

Some months ago I had my guitar set up 'properly'. The action was really high to the point of ridiculous at the 12th fret especially. One of the things that my guitar repair guy did was to lower the saddle. As it happens I asked him to lower it twice.

When I got my guitar home after the first set of adjustments I was thrilled with the new action to about the 8th fret but not completely happy with it below that. I played it for a while to be sure and then went back to my guitar repair guy. He said that the difference was that the neck had a dip in it at the bottom (where it connects with the guitar) and that it was difficult to give it even action. He then ground more off the bridge. When he finished he said it might be a bit too low, but should work OK for my playing.

I seem to be using a more vigorous style now, I think it is buzzing a little too much (especially if I strum too hard which I guess is natural).

OK - after that long intro - my question is - Is it OK to raise the saddle using genuine shims (as I've read you can do) or do a need a new saddle? From what I've read on the internet, I should be able to insert a shim under the saddle myself. Then if I don't like the added height - no harm, I can just take it out.

Is this a stupid idea? Should I just take it back to my guy? - at the risk of feeling like a pathetic, knows nothing ,loser that doesn't know what she wants - (just pride I guess). I'd sort of like to do it myself too. Sense of achievement I guess, the engineer in me.

What do you think?


michelew
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Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:36 am

Hi again Michele,

Wow, I'm really amazed lately how much I've learned about guitars, WITHOUT really getting to be able to play one well. But here's the answer. Ebony shims are the ticket, and here's where to get them. And check out their bridge pins while you're there. They do some really beautiful work.

http://www.guitarsaddles.com/SaddleShim.asp

Peace,
Wilson


michelew
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Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:46 am

Thanks WIlson - I just found that site myself tonight too. I thought I might just check whether one of my local music stores stocks them - I only need one (or a small number anyway depending on how many times it takes me to get it right).


SO - if i'm reading you correctly, you're saying give it a go myself.


michelew
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Thu Nov 12, 2009 7:02 am

I would. A luthier will probably charge you for a full setup. It' just a matter of gluing the shim(s) to the saddle, and then slowly sanding it to the desired height. I'm great at fine wood/metal working skills and have lowered several of my own saddles. Sometimes lowering one side more than the other. You just have to take your time and finish with a sanding block, so the bottom of the saddle/shim is flat and true when you're done. It's time consuming. You have to put the strings in and tune back up, in and out, over and over, till you get it just right. But if your good at that kind of thing, it's really rewarding, when you finally get it just right.



Just like carving Stonehenge LOL


mmmbldo
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Thu Nov 12, 2009 7:44 am

If you want to first try something easier and cheaper, try cutting a strip of plastic packaging (type used for packing electronics, etc.) and just place it in the slot under the saddle...no gluing, sanding, etc.. I have done this and found it to work well, transparent to the guitar's tone, as far as I can tell. [I'm assuming you do not have a piezo undersaddle pickup. I have not done it with that scenario.]


Chasplaya
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Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:23 pm

Personally i'd replace the saddle, keep in mind the saddle is what transfers the vibration from the string to the guitar, and its like in electricity anything in the circuit will affect the sound. For the cost of a saddle i'd start again, keep the old saddle as a base line reference to work from, and its not a hard job do it yourself, i've done this kind of thing a couple of times now


BigBear
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Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:29 pm

Michele- I think you need a different repair shop! What I think the guy was saying is you need to have the neck reset. Not an easy task and may not be cost effective depending on the value of the guitar. But if he ground the saddle too low why doesn't he fix it for you? Has this guy heard of "Customer Service". I've got a great repair shop in my town (actually a couple of them) and I would never accept a buzz after you paid for a setup. That is just not satisfactory unless you told him you wanted a super low action for some reason.

Does your guitar have an adjutable truss rod in it? That would be the first place I would start. You may be able to take a little of the bow out of the neck and get the buzzing to stop. If you have a truss rod tool you can play with this yourself. Just make small adjustments and go slow, it takes the guitar a little time to equilize again after an adjustment.

Although you could probably shim the saddle I wouldn't do it. The saddle is the primary vehicle for getting string vibration to get into the guitar. That's the reason under-saddle pickups are so popular!! Plus the geometry of a guitar's "action" is more complex than simply raising the saddle, although the saddle is often a major component. I think this important component needs to be one piece of homogeneous material, sitting firmly on the bridge and not have shims under it.

If you want to play around with the saddle I would purchase a pre-formed piece of Tusq and install it, then make adjustments to it as needed. Tusq is a polymer material that is inexpensive, easy to form and is used by many/most guitar makers. I have Tusq on all my acoustics both nut and saddle. I have a bone nut on my Les Paul. A pre-formed Tusq saddle can be had for around $6-7 USD.

Here is a link for Tusq saddles. Stewart-MacDonald is a major supplier to luthiers:

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Nuts,_saddl ... ddles.html

Good luck with this and let us know how it goes.


Chasplaya
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Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:35 pm

BigBear wrote:
Michele- I think you need a different repair shop! What I think the guy was saying is you need to have the neck reset. Not an easy task and may not be cost effective depending on the value of the guitar. But if he ground the saddle too low why doesn't he fix it for you? Has this guy heard of "Customer Service". I've got a great repair shop in my town (actually a couple of them) and I would never accept a buzz after you paid for a setup. That is just not satisfactory unless you told him you wanted a super low action for some reason.

Does your guitar have an adjutable truss rod in it? That would be the first place I would start. You may be able to take a little of the bow out of the neck and get the buzzing to stop. If you have a truss rod tool you can play with this yourself. Just make small adjustments and go slow, it takes the guitar a little time to equilize again after an adjustment.

Although you could probably shim the saddle I wouldn't do it. The saddle is the primary vehicle for getting string vibration to get into the guitar. That's the reason under-saddle pickups are so popular!! Plus the geometry of a guitar's "action" is more complex than simply raising the saddle, although the saddle is often a major component. I think this important component needs to be one piece of homogeneous material, sitting firmly on the bridge and not have shims under it.

If you want to play around with the saddle I would purchase a pre-formed piece of Tusq and install it, then make adjustments to it as needed. Tusq is a polymer material that is inexpensive, easy to form and is used by many/most guitar makers. I have Tusq on all my acoustics both nut and saddle. I have a bone nut on my Les Paul. A pre-formed Tusq saddle can be had for around $6-7 USD.

Here is a link for Tusq saddles. Stewart-MacDonald is a major supplier to luthiers:

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Nuts,_saddl ... ddles.html

Good luck with this and let us know how it goes.
Concur, what he said. Same as me but more, Bear makes a good point the neck may need adjusting first before playing further with the saddle. Certainly if your luthier already pointed that out abput the neck, i'd also get a second opinion. Cos if your guy didn't recommend fixing the neck thats strange, although he might be weighing up the cost if the problem is more than truss rod you know cost vs value of guitar, and he might just be presumptious about what you want to pay


michelew
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Thu Nov 12, 2009 3:53 pm

He considered the neck, but it is not removable and the guitar only cost me able $500 anyway. I'll looking into whether my music stores stock tusq saddles and not worry about the shim.

Thanks for the info guys!

Michele


goldleaf
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Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:36 pm

Michele, A little trick to make changing the saddle easier-- loosen the strings, put a capo on the 1s fret, pull the Pins out and you are free to work on the saddle or fretboard w/o having to unstring and restring your guitar. Gary


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