Saddles - best material - bone, tusq, plastic ....

michelew
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Sun Nov 15, 2009 2:35 am

You made have seen my thread Best way to raise a saddle slightly. In the process of getting what I need to raise my saddle very slightly (info and an appropriate saddle), I've been reading up on saddle material. My Yamaha FG413S came with a plastic saddle. I'm hoping to replace it shortly with a Tusq saddle (thanks for the recommendation Bear) and in the process get rid of the slight buzzing I'm getting and improve the sound quality. Taylor uses Tusq on their guitars, so I'm hoping that that is a good sign about the quality and benefits of Tusq.

However, I've also been reading about another materials, such as bone (from the beef industry). I've read about ivory too - but frankly I'm not going near it. I've read a few things and spoken to few guitar shop guys that/who reckon that bone is the best.

I'd love to hear your experiences with different saddle material. What did you find? Did you hear a difference - did you like it. What did you use? Is bone the best material??

I'd be especially interested to hear form anyone with a steel string acoustic yamaha - especially a FG series one.

I'm finding it rather fascinating, I have to say. I can be a bit obsessive when I get interested in something. But, I can really see how people get into wanting to build and/or specialise their own guitar. I'm just beginning to scratch the surface, I know. As everything I'm sure it's a case of the more you learn, the more you realise that you still have a lot to learn. But, it's great stuff.

Love to hear your experience.

Michele


aitch
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Sun Nov 15, 2009 11:30 am

I just went from a Micarta (laminate) saddle to bone on my Martin. The biggest difference I can tell is in the sustain. Notes ring noticeably longer than they did with the old saddle and I lost the slight "thunk" that I could hear on the D and G strings. Tonally, the bone sounds a bit "twangier" than the Micarta and I notice a bit more separation in the notes/strings. It seems to have brought the bass out a bit, and the "twangy" sound is a bit more prevalent on the higher strings. Hope that makes sense...tones are so subjective and hard to put into words.


BobR
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Sun Nov 15, 2009 11:41 am

Hey Michele. Don't forget about the nut and the pins. The saddle will make the most difference. But I've read about folks using different bridge pins for the top 3 and bottom 3 strings to get EXACTLY the sound they want. Combinations of ebony and (black) horn, I think.

I have bone saddle and nut and tusque pins on my Yamaha APX900. But they were already installed when I got it, so I can't really make a comparison to the original materials.


wiley
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Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:03 pm



goldleaf
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Sun Nov 15, 2009 4:17 pm

Michelle, choosing a replacement saddle and pins for a couple of acoustic guitars I spoke w/ my Luthier and have done some other reading and talking to people who sell the nuts, saddles & pins & what I have found is that Tusq is good material that is consistent throughout. Bone is the next step up and not much more expensive, the next steps up are walrus & mammoth materials which are about double the price of bone. I bought a bone saddle for my Little Martin/w spruce top and also bone pins with abalone inlay. I think they cost me about $25 for the saddle and same for the 6 pins. The change did help get a noticeable difference in the sound and sustain which helped since it is a 3/4 size guitar. "Wilson" mentioned in his post about using different pins for the 3 bass strings and the 3 treble strings. My Guild Willy Porter came from the factory w/ bone pins on the bass strings and ebony pins on the treble pins. Ebony pins are also a good choice for getting more sound, especially upper end (treble) sound from your guitar. I think the bottom line is bone is the best bet for your money, they don't cost too much and is definitely better than plastic and a step up from Tusq. That's what I use anyway. I have found maurysmusic.com has a good selection of these types of parts and good prices. It's a good site to compare and learn about different materials for saddles, nuts & pins. Gary


michelew
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Sun Nov 15, 2009 4:46 pm

Thanks everyone. I should have mentioned that I also have Tusq pins coming the post (a Tusq supercharger kit). I'm not planning on changing the nut a this point as I'd need to get it done by a professional and that sounds expensive. I've also read that saddle and pins make the most difference.

That's interesting about the difference you can get by using 2 difference sets of pins, I hadn't read that.

I'll see how I go with Tusq, if that goes well maybe I'll try bone a little later. A great experiment to look forward to.

thanks again guys.

Michele


goldleaf
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Sun Nov 15, 2009 5:05 pm

michelew wrote:
Thanks everyone. I should have mentioned that I also have Tusq pins coming the post (a Tusq supercharger kit). I'm not planning on changing the nut a this point as I'd need to get it done by a professional and that sounds expensive. I've also read that saddle and pins make the most difference.

That's interesting about the difference you can get by using 2 difference sets of pins, I hadn't read that.

I'll see how I go with Tusq, if that goes well maybe I'll try bone a little later. A great experiment to look forward to.

thanks again guys.

Michele
Michelle, you can see, if you look close on my Harvest Moon video the black pins ebony and the upper pins white bone. It gets into very much personal preference and if you feel the guitar is lacking on the upper or lower range. Tusq is a good choice because it is uniform where bone you are never sure. Good decision on the Nut, I'd leave that one to my Luthier also. Gary


wrench
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Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:23 pm

Michele,

I was just wondering if you got your TUSQ saddle in yet.

I put TUSQ in 2 Yamahas this week, an FG700S and an LJ6. I think the 700 is pretty close to your 413, but the 413 isn't sold in the US.

Higher action increases volume and clarity, so I cut the new TUSQ saddle to the correct action height before I installed it, so I am able to compare just the difference in the saddles - no other variables contaminated the comparison.

I have better than average hearing in mid and high frequencies, and I spent some years analyzing machine vibration, so when I hear something, I sort of visualize how the waveform of the sound would look on an oscilloscope or spectrum analyzer. With the original plastic saddle, I think the 700 produced a spectrum with a fuzzy wave of higher amplitude in the lower frequencies (5th and 6th strings), low amplitude in the mids (3rd and 4th strings), and recovering a little in the highs (1st and 2nd strings). With the TUSQ saddle, I think the wave is much cleaner, and the amplitudes are more even across the range. OK, that's what I think it looks like, but what did it sound like?

With TUSQ, I think the guitar has a noticeably clearer voice, more even volume across the notes, and the sustain is about 25% longer. This 700 never did real well with harmonics, but the new saddle really improved 12th fret harmonics. 5th fret harmonics were better on the 3rd through 6th strings, but 1st and 2nd remain a little weak. Overall volume was louder.

My Yamaha FG700S is clearer, louder, and you can hear all the notes more evenly. It won't create great sound that isn't already there, and it won't filter awful sound that is. For example, because I have such acute hearing, I hear a hiss from the 6th string that I believe is the axial collision of the string windings under acceleration. I hear that louder with TUSQ - but nobody else does.

I think great guitar builders like Taylor, Godin, and others use this stuff for a pretty simple reason. It works, and it's not expensive.

I'm curious to know how yours turned out.

wrench


michelew
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Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:49 pm

Wrench,

Thanks for the info. It sounds like the saddle will make a different to my FG413S too. It hasn't arrived yet. It's coming from the US and can take 6 or more week sometimes, so I'm not holding my breath. I'll give you and update once it's here.

Michele


michelew
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Sat Nov 28, 2009 8:51 pm

As requested, this is an update on my progress. I have installed the new Tusq saddle. Actually I've disassembled, sanded, reassembled about 4 or 5 times already (I've lost track) to ensure that I didn't overshoot and not end up raising the saddle height, which was the objective. It is incredible how different minor changes to string height can make to playability.

So the results. We'll in the end I've only raised it by a fraction, maybe 1/2 a mm - I only have a ruler with mm on in it. I will get on with 1/16 of a inch on it when I can.

THe sound - there is an incredible difference I'm really surprised. It is a clearer, sharper, louder and a more complex sound. There are more tones in each note. It is really quite amazing. It's a big change for the $20 investment.

It's been fun too. I feel more confident about making minor adjustments to my guitar too. Although, I don't think I'll be touching the tress rod or the nut anytime soon.

Gary - thanks for the capo trick - it's been a godsend. And you were spot on about needing to turn the saddle around from time to time while sanding.

Now I'm thinking about a bone saddle, buffalo horn pins and ebony pins. That won't be for a while. But, if the tusq saddle makes that much of a difference, what might the full overhaul accomplish?

Thanks to everyone for all your great advice. It's been a fun adventure and I'm loving the new sound.


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