ToneRite: perfect product or complete B.S.?

dennisg
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Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:56 am

Not too long ago I posted a question asking what goes on inside a new guitar that's being "broken in." Lots of folks had interesting theories on this. This morning, I came across something in Acoustic Guitar magazine about a product called ToneRite, a little device that sits near the bridge that produces vibrations to break in an instrument better and quicker. I pulled this text from the company's web site:

The secret behind the ToneRite® is its ability to continually produce and efficiently transfer vibrational energy into an instrument, safely recreating and magnifying the physics that occur naturally while playing. This stimulation produces a change to the integrated components within an instrument and increases their ability to resonate together as a whole. The result is added volume and instruments that are easier to play with a sound that is more full and balanced. Not only will your instrument sound better but the notes themselves will come easier, allowing you to play more difficult passages with less fatigue.

Notice that it not only says "recreating the physics," but also "magnifying" them -- which I infer to mean that the breaking in process occurs quicker with the ToneRite than from my actual playing of the instrument.

So, have at it, guys and gals. Should we regard this product as a critical component in every guitarist's toolbox, as magic, or as total horse puckey?

- Dennis (in Seattle ... where it's raining ... again)


BigBear
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Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:35 pm

Hi Dennis! I vote for complete and utter B.S. This is another axample of the K.I.S.S. Theory- Keep It Simple Stupid! Nowhere is simplicity more rewarded thant with acoustic guitars. After literally hundreds of years of evolution, the modern acoustic guitar is basically unchanged from it's predecessors. There is a reason why!

The fun part of playing a new guitar is breaking it in! If you want to break it in faster, play more!!

Cheers! :cheer:


goldleaf
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Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:49 pm

If this item works with any degree of effectiveness, such as being equal to playing it would sure help some of us who have several guitars that are in need of opening up of the tone and other woods. From what I've heard regarding all wood acoustic guitars the opening up of the wood can take years?? I'd be interested in others opinions of the length of time it takes for an all wood guitars, say for example maple S&B or Indian Rosewood S&B and Sitka Spruce Top. I haven't owned my guitars long enough to know from experience. Gary


goldleaf
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Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:57 pm

I'd be interested to know the scientific foundation -- if there is any -- for guitars "opening up" with play. I know there are reams of subjective, anecdotal stories out there regarding guitars sounding better with age and play, but I must confess to being somewhat skeptical -- or, at least, I'm interested in something more than hear-say. I don't doubt that its possible, but I do wonder about all the folks that claim to be able to hear differences and how much of it is or isn't psychological.

Have there been legitimate double-blind studies of guitars being played and folks being able to determine older / more played guitars from sound and tone alone? and if so, what is believed mechanism of action that makes playing a guitar sound better?


dennisg
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Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:05 pm

fjvdb wrote:
I'd be interested to know the scientific foundation -- if there is any -- for guitars "opening up" with play. I know there are reams of subjective, anecdotal stories out there regarding guitars sounding better with age and play, but I must confess to being somewhat skeptical -- or, at least, I'm interested in something more than hear-say. I don't doubt that its possible, but I do wonder about all the folks that claim to be able to hear differences and how much of it is or isn't psychological.

Have there been legitimate double-blind studies of guitars being played and folks being able to determine older / more played guitars from sound and tone alone? and if so, what is believed mechanism of action that makes playing a guitar sound better?
fjvdb,

I read an article by Bob Taylor, founder and owner of Taylor Guitars, in which he said that guitars open up after repeated playing. He didn't quantify it or put it into context with specific woods. What I found most interesting was that he admitted that his (and everyone else's) new guitars don't sound as good as they will until they're played repeatedly. That's a gutsy thing to say to the guitar-buying public. He could just as easily have said that Taylor guitars sound perfect right out of the factory, but he didn't.

- Dennis (in Seattle)


BobR
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Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:10 pm

dennisg wrote:
fjvdb wrote:
I'd be interested to know the scientific foundation -- if there is any -- for guitars "opening up" with play. I know there are reams of subjective, anecdotal stories out there regarding guitars sounding better with age and play, but I must confess to being somewhat skeptical -- or, at least, I'm interested in something more than hear-say. I don't doubt that its possible, but I do wonder about all the folks that claim to be able to hear differences and how much of it is or isn't psychological.

Have there been legitimate double-blind studies of guitars being played and folks being able to determine older / more played guitars from sound and tone alone? and if so, what is believed mechanism of action that makes playing a guitar sound better?
fjvdb,

I read an article by Bob Taylor, founder and owner of Taylor Guitars, in which he said that guitars open up after repeated playing. He didn't quantify it or put it into context with specific woods. What I found most interesting was that he admitted that his (and everyone else's) new guitars don't sound as good as they will until they're played repeatedly. That's a gutsy thing to say to the guitar-buying public. He could just as easily have said that Taylor guitars sound perfect right out of the factory, but he didn't.

- Dennis (in Seattle)
I've read many similar stories, and may have even read this same article (I picked up the latest Taylor mag from my local shop about a week ago -- good read). I don't doubt that this is possible, nor do I doubt that people believe it. What I wonder is if there's been any studies that confirm it, and if so, how does it work?


goldleaf
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Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:36 pm

The aging process?? "Frantzisek Furch, of the Czech Republic and producer of "Furch" guitars, offers a process for aging the top of guitars he sells for $400. The process involves introducing "enzymes & micro-organisms that eat away everything on the wood that would naturally decay over time. You are left with a piece of non-hydroscopic wood that is completely dry, much lighter and produces a tone much like a vintage instrument" Wow

Here's one more! "The sap in the Spruce wood tends to crystalize over a period of time. How much sap is different with each piece of wood and the aging process has a major effect of some guitars and hardly non on others. After the sap has crystalized then vibrations by playing or some other source breaks up the crystalized sap and the wood is freer to vibrate and lighter"

The ToneRite if it works would only work after the sap has crystalized and after the crystalized sap has been broken up by vibrations it seems unlikely to be effective beyond that time to me.

As I understand, it's marketing says you are supposed to use it 1 hour before playing, which doesn't make any sense to me. Gary


Yamaha48
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Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:37 pm

A lot of monny for the tonetite.
For me it sound new.
What i do,is play every day on my guitars.
Another storry is,when you set the guitar in front
Of the speakerbox of the HiFi stereo.
That the sound of the guitar wil better.
My local musicstore tell me that.
Maby you have the same work as the tonerite.

Greetz Anton


wrench
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Fri Nov 20, 2009 6:32 pm

Yamaha has a pretty good description on its website of what happens to wood as it gets exposed to vibration. They also have a process called Acoustic Resonance Enhancement where they treat tonewoods so that the new guitar already sounds aged.

fjvdb, there is a physiological change to opened-up guitar tops, as Yamaha describes. I would also say the difference is audible. In my own case, a Sitka spruce top sounded good when new then sounded much better 6 months later. Another guitar with an Engelmann spruce top, sounded underwhelming, nearly disappointing, when new, but sounded magnificent a month later. This is consistent with what I've read about the nature of these tonewoods.

I really can't comment on the ToneRite as I know little about it, but if a guitar ages and sounds better as the result of exposure to vibration, then I would say Anton's advice of parking a guitar in front of speakers would do the job more economically than ToneRite unless it uses a more effective waveform than music.

dennisg - if the Tonerite is "magnifying physics" I would guess that it emits frequencies that correspond to the 6 open notes on the guitar in an effort to make the top resonate, which by some loose definition is the natural amplification of a vibration.

wrench


BigBear
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Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:23 pm

My Larrivee has a beautiful Englemann spruce top. I've told this story before on this forum but the short version is I custom ordered the guitar with a wider neck for my big hands. Got the guitar, absolutely beautiful but sounded like crap. I was heartbroken but I couldn't send it back because it was custom ordered.

I kept playing it and after about 6 months it started to sound a little better. Then everytime I pulled it out it was noticeably better. Now it sounds stunning. I wish my playing sounded a fraction as good as the guitar does!

I have a theory about seasoning guitars that could be utter malarkey but here it is. Guitars are made from several types of wood and even different glues. Until the guitar has had a chance for all the materials to equalize, ie. achieve their ultimate moisture content, the guitar will continue to age. Over time these changes become smaller and smaller and basically disappear at equalibrium. Playing the guitar causes vibration which accelerates the process.

Personally, I wouldn't spend 10 cents on anything to make the guitar age faster. Caveat emptor! :cheer:


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