All,
I am trying to jump in this area with my big toe rather than two feet and have several questions. If this is the wrong area I apologize. Please forward me to the correct one. I was going to put this into the video group discussion but wanted to reach a broader spectrum of people. I currently own a Canon Vixia HG21 HD video camera that I really like. Good quality for video and audio. I have a Dell XPS One desktop and a Powerbook G4 that is pretty much in mothballs (really just use it for itunes at this stage) My question is about capturing the best audio that I can with video. With that said, today, I just point the camera and shoot myself playing. Nothing too complicated there. From there I use the software that came with it, ImageMixer 3. I download the performance from the camera using this piece of software and then I can view it. If I'm happy with it then I simply export it to my video's folder in windows and from there upload it to YouTube for this site. It works well and I have no issues. What I am trying to do is capture a much better and "real" audio expierence. I've been looking at various microphones for the camera and may have come up with a solution. It is by Core Sound. Binaural microphone set that really can act as two ears as they are two seperate mini microphones. I'll include the URL and an video here as well to demonstrate what I am talking about. I currently play a Taylor DN8 with no onboard electronics. I feel that one can get the best and most true audio using a seperate mic. Not being an audiophile I really don't know what I don't know. What are people using today? What has been your expierence?
I don't know how to record the video seperatly from the audio or even if I want to do that. Are there any reasons why I should do it this way?
On a seperate note I'm wondering if windows movie maker has the ability to capture or utilize seperate tracks. For overdubbing for instance. Any help here would be great as well.
Here is a URL to the Core Sound site that shows the microphone that I think I'm interested in.
http://www.core-sound.com/mics/1.php
Here is a video on Youtube that shows a guy playing a song recorded three different ways. The fisrt on is with the camera's mic, second is him using an attached directional mic and the last is using the coresound mic.
I know this is long and I apologize for that. I just figured I would ask some of the folks here their opinion. Thanks.
MarkM
audio/video recording questions
Good query mark, I will also be very interested in responses, as this is an area I need to know more about. And yes for this its in the right place, maybe later the answers can be posted to the appropriate group for easier access down the track (pardon the pun)
Mark, if I absolutely had to pick one, I'd pick the third one. There was an absence of camera-mechanism noise that was present with the recording using the camera's internal mic (a common problem with internal mics) and the entire frequency spectrum was far more crisp and clean. The problem with the test is that the second recording was in mono and only on one channel, so it's impossible to compare it to anything else since one channel just doesn't sound nearly as good as two.
Dennis I agree that the 3rd option is what I like as well and you really get the full sound. This is using the Core Sound system that I made reference too. With this you can set up both mics on a stand where one may be closer to the lower bout of the guitar and one can be around the sound hole. Thus getting a really good sound out of the guitar.
Just really curious as to what other people are doing as well.
MarkM
Just really curious as to what other people are doing as well.
MarkM
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neverfoundthetime
- Posts: 48
- Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2009 2:14 pm
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I'm just using my Dell Inspiron 1525 laptop which has proved so useful and easy to use with the draw-back of hearing the internal ventilator squeaking away sometimes. Or the Kodak Zi8 and it's internal mic. I will probably look for a an external microphone for that soon. So I'm just starting the investigation process on this... I'll be watching this space carefully for inputs and recommendations...
MarkM wrote:
I am definitely not an expert with this sort of thing, but I have managed to learn a couple of things since I began recording things last summer. MJ and Al will likely have some important points to make, but I have several points/comments:
1) I agree that using a separate microphone is a better way to record audio when using webcam or video camera of some kind (relative to using the built-in microphone. If, however, your guitar does have an electronic pickup, I think the best way to record the guitar sound is using the "Line-in" port on your computer. This requires a 1/4" to 1/8" cable which goes directly from your guitar to the computer. The problem with this is that you cannot record vocals with this technique unless you do have a separate microphone.
2) I do think it is useful to record audio and video separately, then combine the two using AVS or windows moviemaker. You can do this very easily if you have a computer. Audacity is free, downloadable audio recording and editing software. It takes about 15 minutes to download/install. Use your camera to catch the video, and use Audacity on your computer (with a microphone)to record the audio. Youtube has several helpful instructional videos on how to use audacity. Just search "Audacity tutorial". The reason I find this helpful in that the audio can be manipulated in many ways depending on what you are trying to do. Background noise reduction is something that I've found to be particularly helpful.
3) I'm not aware that Moviemaker allows you to capture audio or video. It does allow you to load your video and audio as separate files, and combine them into one "Project" (not sure if that is the correct term). You can add a title, transitions, credits, and other effects as you wish. You will find that your video file also has some audio attached to it, but you can mute any sound that comes fromt the video file so that the only audio is coming from that separate audio file. I hope that makes sense. Finally, when your "project" is finished, you publish the "project" as a "movie". Having said all that, I prefer AVS as AVS is much easier, in my opinion, to make a picture in a picture sort of thing. It's possible to do with Moviemaker, but fairly convoluted.
The tutorial videos on youtube are definitely helpful, but some are better than others. I know you live in Goffstown. I live in Exeter, and will be happy to show you firsthand what little I know about all of this. You would have to bring your new Taylor, though. The final thing I would say is that I do believe fairly strongly that it's worth learning how to use one of these video editing software programs. It will take several hours of your life, but the knowledge will be helpful for lots of things, perhaps not the least of which is organizing and editing videos of your kids, important family events, and other things that are not guitar-related. That's how I see it, in any case. Good luck. I'm interested to hear some other thoughts on this.
I feel that one can get the best and most true audio using a seperate mic.
I don't know how to record the video seperatly from the audio or even if I want to do that. Are there any reasons why I should do it this way?
On a seperate note I'm wondering if windows movie maker has the ability to capture or utilize seperate tracks. For overdubbing for instance. Any help here would be great as well.
MarkM
I am definitely not an expert with this sort of thing, but I have managed to learn a couple of things since I began recording things last summer. MJ and Al will likely have some important points to make, but I have several points/comments:
1) I agree that using a separate microphone is a better way to record audio when using webcam or video camera of some kind (relative to using the built-in microphone. If, however, your guitar does have an electronic pickup, I think the best way to record the guitar sound is using the "Line-in" port on your computer. This requires a 1/4" to 1/8" cable which goes directly from your guitar to the computer. The problem with this is that you cannot record vocals with this technique unless you do have a separate microphone.
2) I do think it is useful to record audio and video separately, then combine the two using AVS or windows moviemaker. You can do this very easily if you have a computer. Audacity is free, downloadable audio recording and editing software. It takes about 15 minutes to download/install. Use your camera to catch the video, and use Audacity on your computer (with a microphone)to record the audio. Youtube has several helpful instructional videos on how to use audacity. Just search "Audacity tutorial". The reason I find this helpful in that the audio can be manipulated in many ways depending on what you are trying to do. Background noise reduction is something that I've found to be particularly helpful.
3) I'm not aware that Moviemaker allows you to capture audio or video. It does allow you to load your video and audio as separate files, and combine them into one "Project" (not sure if that is the correct term). You can add a title, transitions, credits, and other effects as you wish. You will find that your video file also has some audio attached to it, but you can mute any sound that comes fromt the video file so that the only audio is coming from that separate audio file. I hope that makes sense. Finally, when your "project" is finished, you publish the "project" as a "movie". Having said all that, I prefer AVS as AVS is much easier, in my opinion, to make a picture in a picture sort of thing. It's possible to do with Moviemaker, but fairly convoluted.
The tutorial videos on youtube are definitely helpful, but some are better than others. I know you live in Goffstown. I live in Exeter, and will be happy to show you firsthand what little I know about all of this. You would have to bring your new Taylor, though. The final thing I would say is that I do believe fairly strongly that it's worth learning how to use one of these video editing software programs. It will take several hours of your life, but the knowledge will be helpful for lots of things, perhaps not the least of which is organizing and editing videos of your kids, important family events, and other things that are not guitar-related. That's how I see it, in any case. Good luck. I'm interested to hear some other thoughts on this.
Mark, the Cannon onboard mic really does a surprisingly good job of picking up a pretty good range of tone. The Core Sound mic's really sounded awesome as does the guitar. I am somewhat in the same place it sounds like you are. I have been looking at recording equipment in the $200 to $500 price range. The problem is I know so little about recording and recording equipment it is hard to know where to start. I have a Canon F200 that has an Aux, input for a seperate mic. I do find that pursuing this avenue is in some ways taking me away from learning how to play the guitar by practicing. I would really like to have more control over the audio part of recording videos, including multiple tracks. Sorry I can't be more help other than to say the Core Sound really sounded like it gives you great sound. It would be interesting to hear what vocals would sound like, say in the take where you used Sound Core? Gary
I agree with Jay. Using Audacity to record the audio separately directly into the computer, separate from the video is a great way to go. Then use a program like AVS, or the like. To assemble everything from there. Much more control that way. You'll quickly understand why it's important to "slate" your videos, this is extremely helpful in sycing the sound up later. A loud clap with a movie slate type device along with that visual queue is invaluable. Of course we could start having the conversation about potential playback latency issues when multi-tracking in this scenario but that's for another discussion and is more hardware/computer related.
Plugging the mic directly into the camera is a descent way to go as well.
Personaly, I use a MacBook Pro with Garage Band to record my audio. I use a D.I. (direct in) box from Presonus called a Firebox that interfaces with my MacBook Pro via firewire to give me two 1/4" line inputs and/or two XLR mic jacks with a great pre-amp built it. And built-in 48v phantom power for your condenser microphones. It also has multiple out's as well for monitors.
Within Garageband I can create multiple tracks and select which inputs it's going to record on when I hit record. For example, I will arm input number one and set it to the 1/4" line in mono input from the Firebox, this is what my acoustic guitar (with a 1/4" pickup) is plugged into. At the same time, I'll arm input number 2 and set it to the XLR input from my firebox, which is where I have my microphone plugged into. I'll use the mic to either sing into or sometimes I'll use it to mic my guitar simultaneously with the plug-in. The mic'd input in conjunction with the direct in input sounds really great. Hit record, and off you go, now it's capturing both the 1/4" direct in input from my guitar and from my mic at the same time, really great sound that way. Since both of these inputs are mono feeds, when I'm finished recording, I can duplicate each track pan one left and one right, or partially anyway, for a fully customizable stereo field, but this is a whole other discussion.
As for video, I just record it separately. When you're ready, just hit record in the computer, hit record on the video cam, and go for it! Assemble it later in a video editing program like AVS or the like, or Garageband or iMovie or Final Cut if you're on a Mac.
Of course all of this isn't evident on any of the videos that I've uploaded, hahaha I have just been lazy and recorded with my old video camera with a mic plugged in or on my iPhone, however, I do have some things in the works...
Perhaps a forum section for Audio/Video and or Recording Tutorials/Help would be good?
Of course my scenario requires hardware and money, Mark for you I think the easiest and simplest way to go is to use the mic plugged into the camera. From there you'll find the best placements and so on, and get a really great audio capture, the video camera looks great! Fantastic quality video.
Good luck man!
Plugging the mic directly into the camera is a descent way to go as well.
Personaly, I use a MacBook Pro with Garage Band to record my audio. I use a D.I. (direct in) box from Presonus called a Firebox that interfaces with my MacBook Pro via firewire to give me two 1/4" line inputs and/or two XLR mic jacks with a great pre-amp built it. And built-in 48v phantom power for your condenser microphones. It also has multiple out's as well for monitors.
Within Garageband I can create multiple tracks and select which inputs it's going to record on when I hit record. For example, I will arm input number one and set it to the 1/4" line in mono input from the Firebox, this is what my acoustic guitar (with a 1/4" pickup) is plugged into. At the same time, I'll arm input number 2 and set it to the XLR input from my firebox, which is where I have my microphone plugged into. I'll use the mic to either sing into or sometimes I'll use it to mic my guitar simultaneously with the plug-in. The mic'd input in conjunction with the direct in input sounds really great. Hit record, and off you go, now it's capturing both the 1/4" direct in input from my guitar and from my mic at the same time, really great sound that way. Since both of these inputs are mono feeds, when I'm finished recording, I can duplicate each track pan one left and one right, or partially anyway, for a fully customizable stereo field, but this is a whole other discussion.
As for video, I just record it separately. When you're ready, just hit record in the computer, hit record on the video cam, and go for it! Assemble it later in a video editing program like AVS or the like, or Garageband or iMovie or Final Cut if you're on a Mac.
Of course all of this isn't evident on any of the videos that I've uploaded, hahaha I have just been lazy and recorded with my old video camera with a mic plugged in or on my iPhone, however, I do have some things in the works...
Perhaps a forum section for Audio/Video and or Recording Tutorials/Help would be good?
Of course my scenario requires hardware and money, Mark for you I think the easiest and simplest way to go is to use the mic plugged into the camera. From there you'll find the best placements and so on, and get a really great audio capture, the video camera looks great! Fantastic quality video.
Good luck man!
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AcousticAl
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- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:10 pm
- Status: Offline
Good topic, Mark.
Keep in mind that I'm more of a video guy.. but the third option sounded best to my ear. I also have to say that the first option seemed pretty good too. I'd also guess that the guy probably didn't have his audio setting to manual in the first clip either- as you hear lots of hiss just before he starts playing. It could have sounded even better if it wasn't set to auto. (see this link in TG Techies where I touched on this if you're interested):
http://www.totallyguitars.com/community ... roupid=106
I'm lucky that I've got an acoustic/electric and can go direct to my computer (1/4" to stereo mini). But I'd suggest an external mic about a foot away from the soundhole if you're just straight acoustic. Better sound that way for sure. The Core mics seemed good- but how/where do you clip them? Too close to the sound hole and I think you'd get distortion.
Re. recording audio separate from video- I haven't done this yet. But as others have said, it would get you better quality. More control, better quality formats (.wav), more sound options in Audacity (a program that I still haven't really used yet).
My two cents anyways.
Keep in mind that I'm more of a video guy.. but the third option sounded best to my ear. I also have to say that the first option seemed pretty good too. I'd also guess that the guy probably didn't have his audio setting to manual in the first clip either- as you hear lots of hiss just before he starts playing. It could have sounded even better if it wasn't set to auto. (see this link in TG Techies where I touched on this if you're interested):
http://www.totallyguitars.com/community ... roupid=106
I'm lucky that I've got an acoustic/electric and can go direct to my computer (1/4" to stereo mini). But I'd suggest an external mic about a foot away from the soundhole if you're just straight acoustic. Better sound that way for sure. The Core mics seemed good- but how/where do you clip them? Too close to the sound hole and I think you'd get distortion.
Re. recording audio separate from video- I haven't done this yet. But as others have said, it would get you better quality. More control, better quality formats (.wav), more sound options in Audacity (a program that I still haven't really used yet).
My two cents anyways.
Everyone thank you for the advice!! It has helped a great deal.
Chris - you and me both. When I was making alot of home movies/dvds a few years ago I would use iMovie and iDVD on the MAC. I must say (being a Dell employee. shhhhhh) That those two applications are really very good a easy to use. I know there are several alternatives in the windows world that are equal and sometimes even better but not as easy to use. The quest continues.
Jay - Thanks for the sound advice. I actually downloaded Audacity this evening but didn't get a chance to really look over it. Just imported one file and that is as far as I got. That would be great to get together. Just PM me and we can discuss it further. Maybe we can put a song together? I'll bring the camera.......
Gary - I hear ya. We're in the same situation. What I'm thinking is that I can use the double mics that I referenced as they seem to really bring out some great sound from the guitar (which may get me to play a little softer) and then do a singing part if I'm up to it on another track via a different mic. We'll see. I'll pick up a voice mike that I can plug into the computer first and see how that goes before I invest in the guitar one.
Damian - Thanks. A lot to digest but I think I can figure out how to get this done on a PC. Audacity looks pretty good for the audio. I'll now have to figure out what to do on the video. I do have Adobe Premiere Elements 8 but to tell you the truth it is such a CPU and memory hog plus severely complicated that it is a total bust. I'll try some of your other suggestions. I may just buy a freaking super computer in the next couple of monts to make sure I don't have any issues. As for strictly recording the guitar I'm really leaning towards that Core Sound mic. I can use use it both for the camera and the computer. I'll just have to figure out how to set them up. I can probably use a boom mic stand and place them both close enough to the guitar. Maybe one in front of the sound hole and the other by the lower bout.
Al - Thanks. Funny you mentioned that other thread. I was there today and took a look at it. I'll have to open my camera manual and look to see how I can adjust the audio capture manually. I have do have that setting. As for where I'll set up those mics, well maybe a boom mic stand will suffice. Not sure yet. Also there are so many mics to choose from its driving me a bit crazy.......
MarkM
Chris - you and me both. When I was making alot of home movies/dvds a few years ago I would use iMovie and iDVD on the MAC. I must say (being a Dell employee. shhhhhh) That those two applications are really very good a easy to use. I know there are several alternatives in the windows world that are equal and sometimes even better but not as easy to use. The quest continues.
Jay - Thanks for the sound advice. I actually downloaded Audacity this evening but didn't get a chance to really look over it. Just imported one file and that is as far as I got. That would be great to get together. Just PM me and we can discuss it further. Maybe we can put a song together? I'll bring the camera.......
Gary - I hear ya. We're in the same situation. What I'm thinking is that I can use the double mics that I referenced as they seem to really bring out some great sound from the guitar (which may get me to play a little softer) and then do a singing part if I'm up to it on another track via a different mic. We'll see. I'll pick up a voice mike that I can plug into the computer first and see how that goes before I invest in the guitar one.
Damian - Thanks. A lot to digest but I think I can figure out how to get this done on a PC. Audacity looks pretty good for the audio. I'll now have to figure out what to do on the video. I do have Adobe Premiere Elements 8 but to tell you the truth it is such a CPU and memory hog plus severely complicated that it is a total bust. I'll try some of your other suggestions. I may just buy a freaking super computer in the next couple of monts to make sure I don't have any issues. As for strictly recording the guitar I'm really leaning towards that Core Sound mic. I can use use it both for the camera and the computer. I'll just have to figure out how to set them up. I can probably use a boom mic stand and place them both close enough to the guitar. Maybe one in front of the sound hole and the other by the lower bout.
Al - Thanks. Funny you mentioned that other thread. I was there today and took a look at it. I'll have to open my camera manual and look to see how I can adjust the audio capture manually. I have do have that setting. As for where I'll set up those mics, well maybe a boom mic stand will suffice. Not sure yet. Also there are so many mics to choose from its driving me a bit crazy.......
MarkM