Help me buy an electric-guitar amp

dennisg
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Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:42 pm

Izzy, I certainly can understand why you'd be curious about this thread, but if you want a practice amp for an acoustic guitar, I think this is the wrong thread for you, seeing as how it's geared to getting effects out of electric guitars.

The good news is that there have been several threads that address just the topic I think you're looking for. In fact, I bought my Roland AC-60 acoustic amp (which I love, by the way) as a result of one of those threads. Do a search on "acoustic amp" and I think you may find one or more of these these threads. Good luck.


Chasplaya
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Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:52 pm

tovo wrote:
Well Dennis certainly bought a beauty. My teasing Scott about playing an electric was deliberate as I knew I would be joining him very soon. On Saturday (just a few days after my mate Dennis and on the same day as the very talented Michele), I bought this:





Image



Dennis was somewhat involved with this purchase by helping me to settle on a finish (In the end I went Heritage Sunburst) which is why I'm posting it here, that and the fact that I need a new amp as well.

Chas gave me some early help on the model I should be looking at. The 335 was a bit pricey so I settled for a bit more of an all-rounder. (It's a Gibson Les Paul Traditional)

Thanks guys. Should arrive this week.
Tony that is an awesome looking guitar. As I mentioned to Tony earlier beware there are huge numbers of counterfeit Gibsons currently on the market, so much that Gibson have created a dedicated page on there site about what to look for and how to identify the fakes.

Dennis's your guitar is really beautiful, a kind of cross between a LP and 335, I looked at them a while back , but I got the offer of my Riviera , which is essentially a 335, if not better, there are some amazing demos on YT of the Taylor being played and it sounds great!.

AS for amps, depends on what you want to play really but if its the Blues then tube amps IMHO are the way to go. Effects, I don't use them at present (my sons dog ate the cables for my multi effects board!!) But there are numerous options out there from people like Boss. At present I can only use the distortion channel on my amp along with the built in reverb, that does most of what I need, that and careful PUP selections.


millponddave
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Sun Mar 21, 2010 9:17 pm

Well, I guess that I might as well weigh in on this. I bought a Carvin vintage 16 amp that I just love. It is made in Califorina and is switchable between six and sixteen watts and is all tube. The price was good and I really like the tone it produces with my strat. It is just right for playing in my living room but is plenty loud when I get the urge to cut loose. So there you go. Carvin only sells through the mail so check them out on the web. They also make great looking guitars although I have never played or heard one

Good luck on your search,

Dave


smips65
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Sun Mar 21, 2010 9:55 pm

dennisg wrote:
What does a tuner do in relation to an amp?

Damian mentioned pedal boards and stomp boxes. Given that I have limited storage space in my house, is there a single product any of you might recommend that delivers a huge amount of effects?

David mentioned a headphone jack. I don't particularly need one, but I'd like a line output so I can hook it up to my camera when I make videos. Some people have mentioned specific amps with built-in effects. And some people think external devices are better. So why is it better to get effects from a pedal board or stomp box than to have the effects built in to the amp? And what is an effects return loop?

Marc asked about the Taylor's holes. It's a semi-hollowbody.

I would urge anyone to feel free to address any of these issues.


Very very nice guitar...

question one, built-in tuner, while plugged into the amp, a button can be activated while playing, and lights will indicate whether or not that particular string is tuned correctly. A nice option, not neccesary.

question two, a line out directly to a camera, might be dicey, d-dog would be the one to ask for sure, but with my limited knowledge, it may not work so well.

question three, stomp box, foot controlled signal effects are just easier to work with, since your playing with your fingers, can't really reach over and play with the knobs on the amp, to change the sound/effect.

question four, effects return loop, is for more than one input. Say for example, your singing, but don't want reverb/tremelo, and chorus on your voice, but want the voice signal to come out of the amp. Essentially it seperates the two signals, one altered by effects, the other is "clean" again, my limited knowledge of things electronic.



Now returning to the guitar itself, and your answers regarding desires...

semi-hollow = tube amp
why? solid state amps can make a semi/full hollowbody sound sterile, lifeless.
A true blue tube brings out an organic living sound. This is an argument that has raged for so long it's not funny, but I will repeat what has already been said, take yours with, and plug it in, as many as it takes.

An option might be a Vox Valvetronix VT30. But be sure to get the 3-button footswitch, as I indicated above, one does not want to stop mid-song to make adjustments to effects.
These are actually solid state amps, with one pre-amp tube, great sound,tone, and too many effects to mention.

As long as we're discussing this subject, the above mentioned amp is considered a "modeling amp"

It mirrors older vintage amps with electonic settings, then you can add things like reverb, chorus, tremelo, and my personal fav, rotary reverb.

There are many "modeling" amps on the market, it really depends on what your likes and dislikes are.


Now, a word about the interest in a headphone jack...

Amps are affected by the sound they produce. Turned down, your playing may be exactly what you want it to be, until you crank the volume up, then suddenly it soulds all whacked.

Amps with power adjustments can be really nice, because at lower power settings, they will produce sound the same as full power, while your learning. That slide up and down the neck will sound out at low gain, or low presence.

On an amp without that, turn those knobs up at half or full power, and all of a sudden the sound is totally different.

Try one of these, with 3 pups, and you'll learn real fast... B) Image


d_dog
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Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:11 am

smips65 wrote:
dennisg wrote:
Damian mentioned pedal boards and stomp boxes. Given that I have limited storage space in my house, is there a single product any of you might recommend that delivers a huge amount of effects?


question two, a line out directly to a camera, might be dicey, d-dog would be the one to ask for sure, but with my limited knowledge, it may not work so well.
I think smips explained things excellently!

As for the pedal boards and stomp boxes, there are a lot of all-in-one effects rigs on the market. The only one that I have any experience with (I own one) is a Boss ME20 effects pedal. I like it a lot, it offers a lot of great sounds, fully customizable, and a couple of foot switches and a volume/wah wah pedal. I think it's right up there with any semi-pro/amateur stage ready pedal. Here is a link: http://www.bossus.com/gear/productdetai ... ductId=894
Although I'm increasingly finding myself just plugging into my Firebox directly into my laptop. Garage Band offers me all the effects I want right now, which is quite a lot actually. My studio monitors are my amp, well my sound anyway.

As for the line-out issue, If what you meant is plugging the amp line-out into your computer, I don't see any technical problem with this, most amps that have outputs are probably line level outputs, and knowing that you have a Mac, the input will take both a line level input or a mic level input. Although, I believe the signal from your amp will be a mono signal, meaning it will only be on one channel, commonly the left. You may have to use some audio software to make it stereo. (can't be certain about this part)
On the other hand, if what you meant was plugging the amp into your camera, for instance the Zi8, I can't be certain. I think it would be OK. But again, I think it would be a mono signal. I don't remember if my amp has a line out, if so, I'll try it with the Zi8 and let you know. Of course if you plug your amp into your camera then you won't be able to sing, and that would be a shame. :( Unless of course your amp will have a second line in for a mic, that has the capability of bypassing the effects, although maybe your voice would sound cool with distortion! :P

My only personal preference issue I have with plugging the amp into the computer or the camera has to do with a standard recording mantra that I learned in school, and that is: Record everything dry. Dry meaning, don't record the track "with" effects, this limits your ability to make any changes later. Of course this assumes you want to make changes later. As usual here, I'm turning this into a big long drawn out lesson as if everyone is looking for semi-pro or prosumer level of recording. I can't help it, I'm passionate about this stuff!

Anyway, strictly from a "recording videos" standpoint, in my opinion your best option is plugging your guitar directly into your Mac and using Garage Band as your effects processor. And use iMovie to assemble it.
For live sound, and or practicing or just for fun, the amp (whatever one you decide on) is the killer way to go!


smips65
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Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:33 pm

dennisg wrote:
Okay, here's the Taylor electric I bought:

Image

I completely understand why you good folks would ask what I intend to play, but I can answer that with only one word: everything. Or, more accurately, I don't know yet. I'm completely inexperienced using an electric guitar, but I'm attracted to specific songs I hear on the radio, and I'd like to try duplicating the sound. That's impossible to do with my current setup. So I'd like to just dabble with a variety of effects just to see what sounds good. I even think that knowing I can get a certain sound will inspire me to learn songs that employ that sound.

Not sure about budget. I could probably go as high as about $800, but I'd like to pay less, if possible.

I knew when I made my first post that you would have a bunch of follow-up questions. I just don't know enough about electrics to anticipate them.

Keep the answers coming. I'm loving what I've gotten so far and I appreciate all your responses.


Taylor T3B Features
•Style 2 HD (high definition) humbucker pickups
•Bigsby with a roller bridge
Volume and tone knobs with push/pull pots
•Sapele body and neck with a Maple top
•Includes Deluxe Hardshell Case




Well it's about 7 pm central time , and was actually relieved that Dennis has not run out and purchased something already.

Quick Warning, this is long, grab a cup of coffee, and a comfy seat.

My job is somewhat interesting, I'm a recycling driver, which means I have all day to ponder things, while most of my work is simply physical in nature.

At several intervals during the day I was reflecting on my earlier post, and felt some regret, that I may have led you down a road you are not wanting to travel.

Even had a mental image of Lemmings jumping the cliff while I stand at the bottem of the hill shouting at Dennis, wait.


So, I stand by the information I posted, not so much the advice
Let me just preface this by saying, this is a great group of people, giving heartfelt advice, and I am simply trying to do the same. What I may suggest is not in anyway meant to be considered an insult/put-down or condescending.

Mulling over your situation, it occured to me that the thrust of your questions, and answers coming back at you, the old expression of "learn to walk, before trying to run" popped up in my mind. (and while this may come across as demeaning, I truly don't mean for it to be. We all have had a first time, at many things in life, this is just one more)

I thought that expression apt here, so thinking this, with respect to electric guitars, and amps, your a toddler, working on those first steps.

When I looked up the guitar you bought, and stated your budget, I immmediately thought "tube amp". The suggested price certainly floated right by most solid state amps, and given the very high level of guitar you have, we're not talking Fords, Chevys, or Dodge anymore. You pretty much went out and bought a Porche.

I copied some specs of your guitar above to highlight some thoughts I have.
Coil splitting, push/pull knobs, and some other features I touch on later are going to require a well built/quality component amp.

Now I like to express myself to other using analogies, comparisons, so my ideas are more easily translated, just wanted to express that upfront.

Now in the case of Tube amps, there are some things I should have mentioned in my previous post, and please excuse my bad.

Tube amps, like cars, will continue to cost you money down the road.
Vacumn Glass Tubes, like tires on a car wear down, and need replacement.
How many miles for the tires, how many hours for the tubes.

These will need replacement in pairs,(depending on model) just like tires, and these may not be cheap.

Engines need tune-ups, tube amps needs those too, it's called "Biasing"
I won't bore you with the details on bias, just think of like an extra thorough tune-up on your car.

Replacement parts, and upkeep, could run 200-300 bucks, again depending on how many hours you put on the amp.

Another consideration is if purchased brand new, like a car, there is a "break-in" period. This is specifically in regards to the speaker installed. Like a new pair of boots, or blue jeans, once broken in, they're not quite the same. Now in the case of a tube amp, this means it will sound subtly different 3,6,12 months after purchase.

Tubes, those little glowing glass bulbs, are very fragile. Very hot, and as mentioned can be very spendy.

Unfortunately, like tires, they come in "bad batches", not often, but not unheard of. Professional musicians usually have "extras" just in case. Might bump the amp, set it down to hard etc etc. Sometimes, the tubes just go, and when I say that, they can just simply burn out, like a light bulb, sometimes they burst. Have to let things cool off, unplug, and clean up broken glass.

Now I'm not writing all this to scare you off, I just want you to be aware of the galaxy your about to enter. Electric guitars and their amps are a universe unto themselves.


Now if you come this far... come a little further down the path with me.


Modeling amps, as I touched on in my previous post, emulate popular vintage tube amps via digital signal processing. A computer chip if you will.
These are nice, but the concern with these, isn't so much the effects and such, but the quality of engine under the hood, so to speak. Your in essence paying for the sophisticated electronics, not neccesarely the speaker, soldering, the real components that make the really expensive amps a breed apart.

A decent solid state amp, well made, with good components, will last a lifetime, and not usually require a trip to the mechanic. Now as I mentioned above with regards to the specialized features of the guitar. Split coiling and push/pulls knobs, are much much better with a well built amp, that is more receptive to the signal coming from the guitar, they more faithfully reflect the guitar. Amps with signal processing can somewhat dull those features on the guitar, alter the signal subtly, in other words, the Porche just won't drive so well with so so humdrum tires.

So to get to the heart of the matter.

Damien had mentioned a Boss floor effects processor. There are many versions of these units, and with respect to what I have learned of you, all things digital, computer, and such are well within your "comfort zone". These units are handy, can be plugged directly into your camera, laptop, plug the guitar into with headphones, no amp required. On the other hand, plug the guitar into one of these, then the amp. As I had suggested in my earlier post, the controls are now at toe-tip, and keep the fingers where they belong, on that beautiful guitar. Some of the higher end units come with software for downloading new features, memory cards, and all sorts of fun features that appeal to the geek in all of us.


My alternative suggestion, is to split your budget, and get one of these effects boards, and a really good mid-level amp, that speaks to your ears, and plays well with the guitar.

Remembering the comment of "toddler stage", and remembering other things you mentioned. You don't know just yet what your after.

Until you form a bond with the guitar, and your ears and skills, tastes, mature enough so that you have a basis to state, that's the sound I want! I really would not recommend that you spend your stated budget on just an amp. Stay in your "comfort zone".
Purchase a moderate good sounding amp, not so focused on how many different sounds it has, leave that for the processing pedal-board.


So in closing I'll bring up an image from a favorite tv show of mine, Kung Fu,

Grasshopper, in the fullness of time, you'll learn much, acquire many new skills, and once you've snatched the peeble from my hand, I'll then say, go now, and buy a real amp.


d_dog
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Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:30 pm

Wow Smips, nice post. Great points all the way around, awesome info, thanks for posting.


Moondog
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Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:36 pm

Hey Dennis
That is one of the amps I have and I just love it. It has so many presets in it. if you want to play Hotel Calif. you can choose lead or rythm and it sounds spot on. You can look on the line 6 web site and see all the artists and songs it has preset.



Mike


wadestar
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Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:56 am

Line 6 that is how I rock! I have the spider 3 75 watt. go for one and be happy is all I say!


dennisg
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Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:10 pm

To everyone who replied,

Thanks so much for all the terrific information you guys provided. I haven't bought an amp yet, but I learned a couple of things in this thread that are going to make the purchase a lot more logical. The first is to schlep my guitar into Guitar Center with me so that I can see how the amps behave with my specific guitar. I'm inferring from your posts that what works perfectly well with a Strat may not necessarily be ideal for my T3. The second thing I learned -- and I really have to thank smips for this -- is to become more educated before I commit the big dough on an amp. With that in mind, I'll probably go pretty inexpensive on the first amp so that I can figure out what the hell I actually want to play and what sounds appeal to me. I can always upgrade later.

At least I know a little now -- enough to not be completely at the mercy of the personal preferences of a metal-shredding Guitar Center employee. Thanks for all the help.


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