Barring Frets...Fretful!!!

[BigBear]

haoli25 wrote:

Brad, some of the best money you will ever spend is to pay a professional luthier to setup your guitar so that it suites your playing style. (It's not expensive either) Another great bargain for guitar players at any level is to join the TARGET program here at TG. Ask any member (with the TARGET symbol below their avatar) and they will tell you to a person how much it has helped become better guitar players. The lessons, the instruction, and the theory is beyond compare.

Bill

Both suggestions are ABSOLUTELY true!! The best money you will ever spend!

Getting a good setup is critical. Make sure to tell the luthier or repair tech that you are a relative beginner because you don't want the action (string height) too low or you will get buzzing all over the place, expecially when you play with a pick and strum hard.

I learned barre chords on an old Harmony guitar and the strings were at least a full inch rbove the fretboard (or it seemed that way at least!! lol!). Barre chords are hard enough withoout your guitar working against you.

If your guitar can't be adjusted or doesn't have an adjustable truss rod in it, throw it away and buy one that does! Even cheap guitars nowadays have adjustable truss rods in them. Without it, your guitar is junk. Harsh but true!

And join the TARGET program the moment it occurs to you to make some serious progress on your guitar. Most of us have never found another teaching device even close to this one! Words like "Outstanding" and "Fantastic" don't even come close to describing the fun and improvement we've all had with this program!

Good luck! :cheer:

[sws626]

You've gotten really sound advice here already. I'll just echo that you'll do yourself a big favour by having the guitar looked at by a luthier. No sense in making this a harder job than it needs to be if the guitar is not well set up. Experiment with how you position your thumb and how you roll your index finger onto the fret. And practice, practice, practice. We've all been there and I'm sure very few of us are completely satisfied that we always get a clean barre. So, welcome to the club and just keep at it.

-Stuart

[wiley]

Just about everything has been covered here, except a couple of things.

1) The first fret, where you 'barre' F major (and others) is the hardest place to catch onto barre chords as it's the hardest fret to place down (due to string tension at the nut), so perhaps try the barres at say, the fifth fret and move them around. Learning to play something like a Bass one quickly catches on that the larger and lower (closer to the nut) frets are the hardest to 'push' down.

2) Too much pressure is actually a bad thing. Your pressure should be just enough to ring the notes clearly. It takes a lot of practice to get there, but it's well worth it. It makes moving around the fretboard a lot harder if there is too much pressure.

3) Everyone has mentioned thumb placement, it's paramount for barre chords. Not only the position on the neck, but the position in relation to your barre. A hint I learned from a Pro (I think even Neil explains this). To get that 'roll' try placing the barre finger across the fret, then 'slide' your thumb more into the center of you hand. Look down and you should find your thumb between the M and A (the 'Johnny Cash' and Ring fingers). This 'forces' your Index finger to roll and, it also makes it find a more correct 'back of the neck' placement.
Then, 'pluck' the strings until they ring. IOW - mute them, no pressure, to begin. Just lay your index finger across the strings. As you play, ever so slightly, press down. Once you 'ring' you have found that magical amount of pressure needed. I bet it's not as much as you think it is, nor as much as you have been using.

4) SLOW Practice. It's Human nature to rush things, get there as quickly as possible. Yet, the easiest way to learn a song, riff, lick, progression is not only repetition, but go at it slowly. Break it down, set that Metronome as slowly as possible. Chord changes come more quickly when you start out by playing a chord then watching as your fingers move from one to another. Speed is the result of smoothness, knowing where you are going before you get there and wasting as little motion as possible.

5) Everyone has hit on the 'setup' aspect and they are dead on. Having to press down on a fretboard that isn't 'properly' setup is self defeating. You can do it yourself, there are a lot of places on the net (and a series here on TG) to lead you there, yet it's not for the inexperienced or the meek of heart as doing so can have a detrimental effect on your guitar.
A word of warning, don't do too much (or even have a tech do it) at one whack unless you have some experience in knowing how you prefer the string movement to be. I could suggest perhaps a lighter gauge of string than the one you are using (not clear on what this is) yet even this requires a proper set-up. Changing gauges does (in physical terms) change the action and may require a resetting of other things on the neck. Do you have a clue as to what gauge of string your guitar was originally setup for (from the factory)?

[dennisg]

Aside from a guitar's action and your own thumb placement, I think the biggest and most common obstacle to playing barre chords is the lack of strength in your left hand. Everyone who learns to play the guitar is using muscles that have never seen activity before, and they're weak until developed further. Remember when you first started playing how tired your left hand got when you played ANY chords at all? You likely built up sufficient strength to overcome that. Well, barre chords are much more demanding physically. You can strengthen your hand by squeezing a tennis ball or by using a device called a Grip Master, which is what I continue to use.

[neverfoundthetime]

Hi Brad. As you have heard from everyone, barre chords are a bitch at first and there is no other way through than to practice the little beasties. It's great when you can finally get some sound other than "thunk" out of those barred strings!
Maybe this could be more fun, at first: Tune your guitar to an open tuning and then just have fun barring across all the strings without having to finger them as well. This can be a lot of fun and really motivating because it is much easier than barring and fingering something like the dreaded F. It worked for me. Here's a couple of example of open tunings you could try:

Open G: DGDGDB
Open C: CGCGCE

Try it out and let me know if it works for you. PM me if you need more info.
Chris

[MarkM]

You've gotten some great advice here on this topic. It's true that it takes a great deal of time and patience. Don't expect this to happen over night as it could take a solid year or longer to get it down to where you are comfortable with this and playing becomes second nature. I had stayed away from barre chords for so long when I first stared because I just wanted to play and not be bothered with it. Not to mention that my first guitar was an inexpensive yamaha that had high action and the neck was rather big. That made it very difficult. Follow everyones recommendations and see if you can get your set up properly as that will help a great deal. I still have issues with some barre chords if they are new to me or if I haven't done a specific chord for a while. Apart from the index finger going down on the fret with solid contact you will have to teach your fingers muscle memory. My suggestion would be to work on the E and Am shapes of the various barre chords. That should help with teaching your fingers where to go regardless of where on the fretboard you are playing. Good luck and stay patient.


MarkM

[willem]

Yeah,yeah,,good to read this thread,,i work on some Bar chords in ''i have tosay i love you in a song'' Jim Croce,,and have trouble with it,,C#m and Bm also the C#7,,,the trouble is to get first the bass note clean and then the fingers down in order i need them,, i find it a good practice to get it once and claen down (fingerpicking),, i do it in a tempo i can manege,, and sometimes it goes very well ,othertime i mess up,, i see were i come to after a certain time on this,, i practice only the verse and do it of and on..

[buzz_187]

So i take it set-up is crucial? LOL Cant wait to get home and take a closer look at the ole axe!! You people got me interested in things i didnt even know existed!!! And does anyone know anything about Spencer acoustic guitars, mine is a SO-SG500 and i cant find any info on it anywhere, cant even find one for sale?!?!? Im sure its a rather inexpensive one, but it sounds great to me, but who am i...

[wiley]

I think you'll find a bit of every kind of axe around here at TG.


Some of us own upper level Guitars, Taylor 814CEs, Gibson Hummingbirds, Martin D28s, and so on. Personally, I own a Gibson Starburst Standard.


And a Seagull S6+CW Folk, which is my 'go-to'. The Seagull sits beside my desk and it's what I carry with me on trips. The Gibson sits in it's case, humidifier and all.

I also own, and have given away, countless guitars. Mostly to Family members who otherwise would probably never buy one. A few are an Epiphone SG, an Epiphone Hummingbird, a Greg Bennet (Samick) cutaway dreadnaught.

I guess what I'm trying to say, most of us begin with just such a guitar as you now own, then 'move up' if and when we decide to take it to another level, IOW - Commitment before Investment. Middle Level has it's place, like the Seagull S6 line or even the lower level Taylor 100 or 200 series.

So, here's a suggestion, when you get home take a capo (if you have one) and place it across the first fret. Hold down at the fifteenth fret and look down the neck. It should be either straight or slightly curved, like a bow. Now if you have one of those old adjustable automotive feeler gauges us old guys used to set spark plugs (still available at your local Auto Parts Store) and set it at 0.010. The gauge should slide under the string (E - Low E - Big E) easily at (on top of) the seventh fret. Not real easily, but it should fit. Probably will. That's about as low as you will ever want a string to the board by using this method.

If you find it's higher than that (Most likely) then you know your setup is too high, IOW - the strings are further away than they need be making it difficult to push them down. Be aware though, the lower the string the less volume and sustain you will get.

You may also check the nut depth, how close the strings are at (on top of) the first fret. Taking those same feeler gauges set them at 0.024 and without touching anything, see how easily they slide under the E (Big E). Then, set them at 0.018 and do the same at e (little e). These are also the lowest you will probably ever want these settings.

I'm not suggesting you try and correct these settings, just use these as a guideline to see how close you are now. Most Guitar Stores offer setups for anywhere from around $45us to $80us when you buy a new set of strings. If you decide to do this you can at that time decide on what gauge and type/manufacturer you will use in the way of strings and have the setup done for that particular gauge at that time, unless you have a particularly large gauge now (doubtful) try something along the lines of an "Extra Light" gauge. Gauges of say, 0.010 up to .047. This will also take away some tone/volume/sustain when compared to larger gauges but the sacrifice is worth it. Simply put, the smaller the 'wire' the less the tension.

Another word of caution about string gauges. If you are now using, and your guitar was factory setup for larger gauges (again, doubtful enough to really matter) then going 'down' in size (From say - 0.012 > .054 to 0.010>.047) can, and will, leave slack at the nut, meaning the string, as it vibrates, catches a bit of movement (Undesirable movement) as it 'sits' in the saddle. Theres always been controversy on exactly how much 'slack' is within guidlines before adverse effects take place. Some say there should be some (the slot should be say, 0.014 for a 0.012 string with the string 'buried' in the nut itself), some argue the string should just sit slightly deep enough so the tension holds it in place.

Setups are done in 'stages' - IOW, one step follows the next in a particular order. Really, the best and easiest thing to do is take the guitar to a reputable shop, Guitar Center actually has Employee programs which teach their employees these things and usually a tech 'in store' and have them look at the setup. The have the tools and most have the knowledge to do so. You can easily tell someone has this knowledge when they first look at your piece. If they immediately want to just lower the saddle without even looking at the existing measurments, take your guitar and RUN>>>>>

My first? A 1968 Fender three quarter size dreadnaught, with a "Uni_Bar" neck.