Goldie Oldies vs. Youngi Fungi

frybaby
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Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:00 pm

Well, I was just wondering..

One of the things I like best about TG is that the bulk of the song and guitar info seem to center around the song I grew up with and love.

Part of the Woodstock-Hippy generation, and all, anyway, I love music, but for some reason I could never develop the same kind of love and appreciation that I have for the music of that time, with most of the newer stuff that been coming out over the past few years.

I got to the point where the only radio I listen to is Classic rock, Oldies, and Classical.

I guess it a sigh of old age; I prefer to call it maturity and appreciation for real music.

But then again my grandparents hated the Stones, Animals and Dylan, etc.

I keep getting encouragement from others to learn some “new song”, but so few to appeal to me, and if I am going invest time and energy in learning a song I gravitate towards the older.

Nonetheless, TG seem to have the music I love as a focal point (this is unique in the world of on-line guitar sites), and most of the TG folk it seem have similar feelings ( makes me feel right at home).
But as I said I was wondering what is it about the newer stuff that cause so many here to prefer or at least gravitate to older music from the earlier days.?


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Music Junkie
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Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:17 pm

I think a lot of it has to do with the memories that go along with the music of any given time. I grew up in the 70's and 80's, graduating in '88'...... I can hear the wise cracks already.... B)

I love bands like Journey, Boston, REO Speedwagon, AC/DC, etc. That being said, I have a very soft spot for classic rock from artists like Jim Croce, James Taylor, Gordon Lightfoot, Led Zeppelin, etc.

I have to admit that since I have picked up the guitar, I have gained a whole new appreciation for artists that I never cared too much for like Bob Dylan.

As far as the new stuff, I listen to a lot of it, and have mixed opinions about it. Some if it is really good, and some is really bad. But, I think you could say that about most generations. Hinder has a few good songs, as well as Lifehouse, Eddie Vedder, etc.

Then throw in some of the West Coast Jazz (smooth jazz) and that opens doors for artists like Nils, Earl Klugh, Marc Antoine, Peter White, etc.......

If you listen to enough music of any time period, you will eventually find something you like..... At least I think so..... :)

Jason


unclewalt
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Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:26 pm

Well, it sounds like you're happy with sticking with the old stuff, which is fine, and comfortable, though nothing I would recommend to anyone. There's tons of great new music out there, as there always has been. I think we should all at least listen to some of it, even if we're not going to learn how to play it. It's a simple matter of deciding whether you want to keep evolving and learning or not.

But two things: first, people just tend to stick with the music they grew up with (except, sometimes, when it's embarrassing.) But also, the "classic rock" era really was special. It was an artistic orgy akin to the Renaissance. Like the Renaissance, it produced a lot of crap, but also just an amazing amount of great stuff, unlike any era before or since. Experimentation and real, leapfrogging innovation were everywhere. (As were stupid sound effects and endless electric bass solos.) There are all kinds of reasons for it, but mainly it was demographics, technological innovation, and economics. Huge numbers of middle class and working class kids had access to the money, gadgetry, and leisure time it took to create what they did. And also to take part in the political and cultural movements that inspired so much of the music. And the economic infrastructure was fully in place to spread the music around to everyone at relatively low cost. All this happening at once is what made much of the music so great and so revolutionary.

My opinion is that we've been benefitting from that revolution ever since, with all kinds of great music being created everywhere you look. It might be less exciting for being less revolutionary and more splintered into niches, and the artistic advancements might be more on the margins, but much of the music is still great, and the level of creativity (among good musicians and performers) is still high.

I find it hard to reconcile being a music lover with the idea that whole decades' worth of music can be rejected out of hand, but that's just me. Still, as far as playing guitar, I think everyone needs to learn the classics, which is why this site is so great.


BigBear
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Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:28 pm

I am right there with you buddy! That's why I love TG and TARGET so much, Neil and I must have grown up together because his taste in music and mine are so similar. It's spooky!

I have lots of theories about why music today isn't very good and most of them are probably wrong. But that's never stopped a good theory!:

1. Classic music tends to occur during times of great social upheaval. The 60's and 70's were tough times in this country.

2. Many of the classic songs are built around simpler themes and great songwriting. I don't beleive songwriting is as strong as it used to be.

3. Technology has seriously impacted music. Techno killed the 80's. Rap and hip hop haven't made the music of the last 20 years very relevant either. When the premium is placed on the visual, not the audio, the music suffers.

4. Songs nowadays don't really tell a story anymore. Does nayone listen to the lyrics of modern music? I sure don't. And even if I did I probably can't relate to the issues and problems of this generation of kids.

5. Live music isn't as relevant as it was. Arena rock is almost history. There are some big acts still but most of the big acts are from our generation, not this generation. When the Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd, the Eagles, can still fill areans there's something wrong, or different, with modern MTV and VH1 music. Live music has given way to the internet.

6. Record labels won't take a chance on new acts like they used. If all we get are the slam dunks, there isn't much opportunity for acts that are edgier or innovative.

I could go on but I believe there is a huge difference in the way music today is written, played, recorded and distributed. The good ol' days of classic rock are gone! Long live Rock and Roll!!

Cheers! :cheer:


unclewalt
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Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:57 pm

"Rap and hip hop haven't made the music of the last 20 years very relevant either."

Relevant to whom? I'm not a big rap fan, but you just wrote off millions of people--to whom hip-hop is as "relevant," or moreso, than any classic rock was to you--as if what they think is relevant is... irrelevant. And much hip-hop (mostly the stuff most people never hear, or hear about) is highly innovative, highly creative, and quite serious. It's not all the shallow, bling-bling, guns and sexism stuff.

I agree there has been some overreliance on technology, but that's just a natural outgrowth of innovation. And Emerson Lake and Palmer (and many others) did the same thing with *their* technology.

". Does nayone listen to the lyrics of modern music? I sure don't."

Well, I do, and many of them are amazing. Sam Beam writes much better songs than Jon Anderson ever did. Because Sam Beam is an incredible lyricist (and guitar player, by the way). Jon Anderson was a terrible lyricist, as were many of that era's songwriters.

"And even if I did I probably can't relate to the issues and problems of this generation of kids."

That's more like it. But there are lots of full-grown adults writing great new music.

"Live music isn't as relevant as it was."

Not as big a deal, but I'd much rather see a live show now in a club than put up with an arena show during any era. I'll never go to another one. Live music, in fact, is better now than ever, because it's done in relatively intimate settings, with high sound quality and few annoyances or distractions. Railroad Earth, a bluegrass-based band that forays into jazz and experimental music, is the best live act I've ever seen, and they're playing now. I saw Iron and Wine recently, and decided it was just as good as seeing Dylan at the Gaslight must have been.

"Live music has given way to the Internet."

I'm not sure what that means, but there are way, way more opportunities now to see a live show than there ever were. Compared to the 70s, the difference is an order of magnitude. More bands, more venues, more dates.

"Record labels won't take a chance on new acts like they used."

True to an extent, but lots of struggling small labels are putting out tons of stuff all the time. And *here* is where the Internet comes in, in a good way.

"If all we get are the slam dunks, there isn't much opportunity for acts that are edgier or innovative."

There are more opportunities than ever before. What's happening, though, is that bands are more likely to be working stiffs rather than stars. Acts like Wilco and The National (and many, many others) aren't getting rich, but they're always working, always producing, and making a living. I see this as a good thing.


haoli25
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Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:04 pm

....makes me think of "Dorkfish".


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neverfoundthetime
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Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:08 pm

....I...er....um.... I was going to post some thoughts on this interesting question from frybaby but if the thread is going to develop like above with walt tearing apart someone else's point of view...I'm not going to bother. Walt, why can't you just let people have their say, you've made your interesting points which everyone can digest. Let others have their say without ripping it apart. That is not what TG stands for.

I was going to say among other things that the bands have been forced to go back out on the road to earn money as CD just do not sell any more. SO we should be experiencing more live music, which is a really good thing. I have lots of other thoughts, but I think I'll keep them to myself.


unclewalt
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Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:20 pm

What are you talking about? Is this a discussion among adults, or what? "Tearing apart?" We're just talking here, and I took the man's post seriously enough to respond to it in some detail, without a single insult. What's the point of a discussion if people can't respond to each others' points? If simply responding--or even, eek! --disagreeing with someone isn't allowed, what's the point of posting anything?

But fine. It's all yours. I've had it. The world, and the Internet, is full of fascinating adult discussions about music.


dennisg
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Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:55 pm

I like this thread.

I've always felt that the lesson songs offered by this site were chosen because they reflect the personal tastes of those who do the choosing. They're older, so naturally they're going to choose the songs that were important to them. It just so happens that the songs that were important to them are also important to so many TG subscribers.

It's easy for Baby Boomers to wax nostalgic about Classic Rock because there was a historical context for many of the songs from that era. For example, many of us remember exactly where we were and what we were doing at the precise moment we first heard a Beatles song. I remember listening to "I want to hold your hand" and "She loves you," and thinking that music was never going to be the same after this. I remember hearing "Surfer girl," and pining away for a sun-bleached blond girl in a bikini. I remember hearing "Something tells me I'm into something good," and feeling horribly lonely because I wasn't going steady.

Some historical context is centered around movies. For example, it's impossible for me to hear "Goin' up the country" by Canned Heat and not think of "Woodstock." Or "Mrs. Robinson" without thinking of "The Graduate." Or "The End" by The Doors without picturing "Apocalypse Now."

It's the images we form and remember that make music so important to us, and I think at some point in our lives, we stop forming those images, and music becomes less important.

For most of us, regardless of which generation we came from, the music that tends to be the most important to us is the music that was there to keep us company during times of uncertainty -- and almost no period in our lives is more confusing than our teen years. For me, and many other people I've talked to, it's the music from that period that we regard as sacred.

I don't think the songwriting in the '60s was better than it is today. Go back and read some of the lyrics from deified mega-stars like Cream, Dylan and Donovan -- acts who were regarded as having their poetic fingers on the pulses of America's youth -- and you'll see how silly and nonsensical much of their lyrics were, as if there were a contest to see who could be the most obtuse, abstract, and heavy. By the way, I loved that music then.

I agree that technology has affected today's music. But it always has. Part of what made the British invasion an invasion was the transistor radio, a pre-iPod device that, for the first time, allowed people to take music with them. My parents couldn't do that with Johnny Mathis and Andy Williams. My older brothers couldn't do that with Elvis and Fats Domino. But I could do it with The Beatles and the Beach Boys. It changed everything. No longer did I have to be in my bedroom to hear "my" music. It was available 24/7/365, and if there was a commercial on one station, Los Angeles offered 20 others that were only too happy to play the music I loved.

The issue of technology has always made people terrified. It was predicted that movies would kill live theatre. Didn't happen. It was thought that records would kill live concerts. Didn't happen. It was thought that electric instruments will kill musical artistry. Didn't happen.

Technology gave us innovations like stereo so that we could better appreciate the music we loved. It gave us noise-reduction circuitry so that the music we loved wouldn't be overwhelmed by tape hiss. It gave us compact discs so that we didn't have to listen to records, whose background noise often resembled a car driving over a gravel road. It gave us synthesizers so that any sound the human mind could imagine could be realized. Admittedly, that hasn't always been a good thing.

I think today's songs tell a story at least as competently as the songs from the '60s did, it's just that the stories have changed. Holding hands, getting a kiss and a dance at the prom just don't hold up as themes anymore.

I'm not sure what it is about arena rock that anyone looks back on fondly, except maybe it was a fun experience. It's certainly not the best way to hear music, seated next to tens of thousands of other people. I enjoyed seeing bands like the Rolling Stones, Queen, Yes, and ELO in stadium concerts. But those aren't the musical performances I liked best, considering that they were occurring roughly a quarter-mile away. But the experience of being there was fun.

As someone approaching 60 years old, music stopped having any kind of historical context for me in the late '80s. That's when all the New Wave bands that I loved started falling apart, and the movement was replaced by Grunge. But just because there's no personal historical context for today's music doesn't mean I think it's inferior in any way. It's just not as important to me.


dennisg
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Thu Apr 29, 2010 2:02 pm

Walt,

I haven't always agreed with you in the past, but I have no problem with your posts in this thread. None at all. I'm not inclined to speak for Bear, since he's quite articulate and does a fine job on his own. But I've observed from past threads that he loves a good, civil, provocative discussion as much as anyone, and I don't think there was anything in your posts that was even remotely uncivil. Stay in the thread.


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