This question has been on my mind recently and I thought it might make an interesting thread.
I think that, generally speaking the community here at TG is very willing to help each other to improve. For me personally, I have gotten far more from being assisted by other members than I have put in. Much more. I can't say how much it is appreciated.
There was a thread (by Dennis) asking people what motivates them to comment on videos. One trend that I noticed was people saying "I don't feel I am technically competent enough to comment". I get that for sure.
So personally, I think an encouraging "well done" is far preferable to saying nothing. But this strikes at the heart of my question.
We have players of various abilities. Should less experienced members feel confident to point out what they perceive as technical areas for improvement? Do experienced players dismiss such observations out of hand? I'm sure less inexperienced people hold back for fear of sounding full of themselves, or for fear of being totally off the mark. Particularly when the performance is a very strong one.
I think we can all learn from technical observations as they generate discussion and are a valuable learning tool.
Should we be more willing to offer such opinion or are we better off leaving it to those who know?
How can we help each other regardless of skill?
Good topic (again). I think all input is valuable. Even if it's not quite correct. Others may comment on the comment.
I can imagine one critiquing someone like Tommy Emmanuel, and Tommy, pausing for a moment to contemplate the comment, replying, you know I never thought about it that way before, I'll have to think about that - thanks.
Personally, I appreciate anyone's comments (as I am flying on my own here and am not too sure of what I'm doing). Others may have a different attitude/personality.
I can imagine one critiquing someone like Tommy Emmanuel, and Tommy, pausing for a moment to contemplate the comment, replying, you know I never thought about it that way before, I'll have to think about that - thanks.
Personally, I appreciate anyone's comments (as I am flying on my own here and am not too sure of what I'm doing). Others may have a different attitude/personality.
Great thread again Tony,
I fully agree with Daryl. If I am submitting a video, I hope I will get technical comments. Of course there is only one Neil, so for the rest of us getting or giving less accurate comments is expected but they do not have less value. You do not need to know how to play a song to have the feeling something is not right. One could feel it is too fast, too slow, some beats missing, too loud, etc...
So for someone to make a comment, they could just listen to the original and compare. As Daryl said, when a player is in his own bubble, he or she might feel the rendering is correct, but when it is pointed to the actual difference, the player can only progress. I have personally benefit from many technical advices from TGers and have applied them (well trying)
If a player with less experience than me makes a comment, I will be really happy, as I expect my comments to a more experienced player will be treated the same way. I actually do not recall anybody making a complaint about a comment. This should mean that everybody likes them, so no one should hold back.
Marc
I fully agree with Daryl. If I am submitting a video, I hope I will get technical comments. Of course there is only one Neil, so for the rest of us getting or giving less accurate comments is expected but they do not have less value. You do not need to know how to play a song to have the feeling something is not right. One could feel it is too fast, too slow, some beats missing, too loud, etc...
So for someone to make a comment, they could just listen to the original and compare. As Daryl said, when a player is in his own bubble, he or she might feel the rendering is correct, but when it is pointed to the actual difference, the player can only progress. I have personally benefit from many technical advices from TGers and have applied them (well trying)
If a player with less experience than me makes a comment, I will be really happy, as I expect my comments to a more experienced player will be treated the same way. I actually do not recall anybody making a complaint about a comment. This should mean that everybody likes them, so no one should hold back.
Marc
For myself, I also think each and every comment or recommendation holds value for the hearer. I have had so many comments given to me that have helped me move songs along and just plain old encouraged me to keep playing and practicing. Even those that I did not agree with caused me to look closer at what I was doing and to improve things.
I would encourage everyone to trust their ears and their instincts and don't hold back on your comments or observations on anything that others post. I believe each poster can sort out what they want and need from the comments. If we are focusing on improving as players then it helps us to keep an open mind about suggestions rather than getting offended by them.
Even if incorrect advice is given, I think that can be sorted out by the group and we will all learn something new.
Bud
I would encourage everyone to trust their ears and their instincts and don't hold back on your comments or observations on anything that others post. I believe each poster can sort out what they want and need from the comments. If we are focusing on improving as players then it helps us to keep an open mind about suggestions rather than getting offended by them.
Even if incorrect advice is given, I think that can be sorted out by the group and we will all learn something new.
Bud
Great topic, Tony.
I often feel that I don't have advice to give other players, or I feel a bit uncomfortable doing so if they're far more experienced than me. But if I notice something that really stands out, I will say something in as polite and encouraging a way as possible. Personally, I love to get technical feedback and I hope people don't hold back from saying things out of fear of hurting my feelings. I admit that sometimes advice or criticism (even well-meant) CAN hurt a little, but as for me, once I've had a minute (or an hour!) to chew on it, I almost always see the value in what the person said and I appreciate that they said it. I think most all of us just want to improve as players, and we're all grateful for the feedback.
I often feel that I don't have advice to give other players, or I feel a bit uncomfortable doing so if they're far more experienced than me. But if I notice something that really stands out, I will say something in as polite and encouraging a way as possible. Personally, I love to get technical feedback and I hope people don't hold back from saying things out of fear of hurting my feelings. I admit that sometimes advice or criticism (even well-meant) CAN hurt a little, but as for me, once I've had a minute (or an hour!) to chew on it, I almost always see the value in what the person said and I appreciate that they said it. I think most all of us just want to improve as players, and we're all grateful for the feedback.
buddy wrote:
I usually get a lot of technical advice. That's to be expected as I am a very new player. Sometimes I think the advice is wrong but don't say so for fear of looking ungracious or conceited. You know, a sort of "how dare you say that about my playing!" type of response. So it works both ways.
It would be far better to go back and question the advice, gain more input from other players, and sort out what is correct so that we know exactly what to work on.
We all hold back at times for various reasons. Obviously we need to consider people's feelings and frame our advice properly. ("You suck" never helped anyone). But provided our intent is to help, I don't think we can go far wrong.
I think that is spot on. We all want input and advice on how to improve, and having pondered this for a while I have another angle as well.
Even if incorrect advice is given, I think that can be sorted out by the group and we will all learn something new.
Bud
I usually get a lot of technical advice. That's to be expected as I am a very new player. Sometimes I think the advice is wrong but don't say so for fear of looking ungracious or conceited. You know, a sort of "how dare you say that about my playing!" type of response. So it works both ways.
It would be far better to go back and question the advice, gain more input from other players, and sort out what is correct so that we know exactly what to work on.
We all hold back at times for various reasons. Obviously we need to consider people's feelings and frame our advice properly. ("You suck" never helped anyone). But provided our intent is to help, I don't think we can go far wrong.
I think that is absolutely true as well.
I admit that sometimes advice or criticism (even well-meant) CAN hurt a little, but as for me, once I've had a minute (or an hour!) to chew on it, I almost always see the value in what the person said and I appreciate that they said it.
For most members who regularly put up videos I believe they look for feedback. It could be when you think you have done well and conquered a particular piece and you don't get the feedback you thought you deserve you might be a bit peeved. That's understandable I guess. My rule of thumb is only to give tech feedback If I'm comfortable/familiar with the technique being discussed or the particular piece of music; the thing with advice we all have the option of taking it or declining it. If not happy or we believe the advice to be incorrect we can either use the Forum to respond or a pm to seek clarification or to simply say sorry don't agree, or you can always say nothing. As we have experienced before sometimes the written comment comes across all wrong and offends, that is something we maybe need to take into account before jumping in both barrels blazing. However, I think most of us are genuinely trying to help not to offend, and given this is an International community we need to take that into account also and realise different sayings/phrases can and do have different meanings, also as this site gets larger we seem to be getting a greater generational spread again many differences in how we approach criticism, those of you with teenage kids will know exactly all about that.
This would be a much poorer place if everybody chose to say nothing, so care in giving comment is as important as care in how we take the comment; reflect then give comment, then reflect and take on board or not..
This would be a much poorer place if everybody chose to say nothing, so care in giving comment is as important as care in how we take the comment; reflect then give comment, then reflect and take on board or not..
Another great topic tony
I've been pondering this for a while now.
There is a fine balance to be had here. A long list of "that was great" type postings when the performance needs lots of work, doesn't help the original poster.
But it is also quite difficult to the get the balance of any feedback right without it coming across as too critical or negative.
Sometimes I ponder long and hard before posting something in the fear that it is going to come across wrong.
I think everybody should be able to comment on the videos, regardless of their current ability on guitar, or even if they don't play guitar at all. We can all hear if it sounds right or wrong, too fast, too slow etc etc
I've been pondering this for a while now.
There is a fine balance to be had here. A long list of "that was great" type postings when the performance needs lots of work, doesn't help the original poster.
But it is also quite difficult to the get the balance of any feedback right without it coming across as too critical or negative.
Sometimes I ponder long and hard before posting something in the fear that it is going to come across wrong.
I think everybody should be able to comment on the videos, regardless of their current ability on guitar, or even if they don't play guitar at all. We can all hear if it sounds right or wrong, too fast, too slow etc etc
I provide advice to the limit of my abilities. Sometimes I know something isn't quite right, but I can figure it out well enough to provide a suggestion. The easy stuff and obvious areas I am happy to provide comment on in a constructive way. But, after that I'm down to encouragement and sheer applause and I think that that's really important too.
There are a few players here with great insight (and then of course there's our guru) who know how to constructively critique a performance and their advice is always welcome and useful. But, I for one am always glad to receive well considered advice regardless of how experienced a person is. As Daryl said someone with fresh eyes might just pick up something that we and others on the site haven't.
To use a cliche - "it's all good".
Michele
There are a few players here with great insight (and then of course there's our guru) who know how to constructively critique a performance and their advice is always welcome and useful. But, I for one am always glad to receive well considered advice regardless of how experienced a person is. As Daryl said someone with fresh eyes might just pick up something that we and others on the site haven't.
To use a cliche - "it's all good".
Michele
I feel the same way about my guitar playing as I do about my professional work: I'm honored and flattered when someone takes the time to give me constructive criticism -- whether it's positive or negative. And I don't receive the criticism any differently from an inexperienced player than I would from an expert. I'm just happy to receive it.
Even if someone said something to me like, "I'm not sure what it is, but something doesn't feel quite right at the beginning of the chorus," I would give serious thought to a comment like that, despite it being so vague. Sometimes people just can't put into words what's bothering them about someone's playing, only that something is. I still think that's valuable input and worthy of consideration.
Even if someone said something to me like, "I'm not sure what it is, but something doesn't feel quite right at the beginning of the chorus," I would give serious thought to a comment like that, despite it being so vague. Sometimes people just can't put into words what's bothering them about someone's playing, only that something is. I still think that's valuable input and worthy of consideration.