How can we help each other regardless of skill?

BigBear
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Sun Aug 29, 2010 3:22 pm

Tony- another in a series of really good questions! I think the offerer of advice has to be really, really careful to whom you offer it. Some people, like you especially, thrive on good, solid advice even if it isn't very complimentary. So I am much more inclined to offer you what I see than I would someone I don't know well.

But I have become VERY cautious of offering any advice to anyone because it's become really apparent that not everyone on this forum can accept positive, well-intentioned criticism/advice. I recently offered a couple of suggestions to a newer member based on what I had observed Neil teaching. He responded that I was wrong and the way he played it was correct (which begs the question of why post a video if you are that good already?).

That's fine, no harm done, but that will be last time I ever offer advice to this member. Perhaps it might have been better to just say "thank you" and disregard the advice if you know it was wrong (it wasn't).

Frankly, there is no upside to offering advice or suggestions. So we all offer "well-dones and great jobs" because it is safe. Getting "strokes" is nice but it doesn't make you a better guitarist. That's a shame because there is much to be learned from such a diverse group of guitarists as on TG.

I firmly believe the old adage that nothing is ever learned by doing it right, We only learn when we do it wrong. And someone can point it out to us. I suggest that if someone wants to critique another member they do it by PM or privately. :cheer:


tovo
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Sun Aug 29, 2010 3:50 pm

BigBear wrote:

Frankly, there is no upside to offering advice or suggestions. So we all offer "well-dones and great jobs" because it is safe. Getting "strokes" is nice but it doesn't make you a better guitarist. That's a shame because there is much to be learned from such a diverse group of guitarists as on TG.

I suggest that if someone wants to critique another member they do it by PM or privately. :cheer:
Mate you have been around longer than me (in all senses of the term) but I would say don't let a couple of bad experiences color your judgment so.

Everyone can benefit from good advice not just the recipient. I am confident that plenty of people read closely the advice and tips from the more experienced players (you included) and get a lot from it. Don't stop giving it mate, that would be a shame. If someone ignores well intentioned, solid advice that reflects poorly on them, not you.

PMing for advice is something I have done (as you know) but obviously that means others can't benefit.

The advice you give to all is valuable Rick, don't stop giving it.


Chasplaya
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Sun Aug 29, 2010 6:22 pm

tovo wrote:
To BigBear...
...don't let a couple of bad experiences color your judgment so.

Everyone can benefit from good advice not just the recipient. I am confident that plenty of people read closely the advice and tips from the more experienced players (you included) and get a lot from it. Don't stop giving it mate, that would be a shame. If someone ignores well intentioned, solid advice that reflects poorly on them, not you.

PMing for advice is something I have done (as you know) but obviously that means others can't benefit.

The advice you give to all is valuable Rick, don't stop giving it.[/quote]

Wholeheartedly agree Tony, if the intended recipient doesn't accept the judgment hey that's ok that is their prerogative after all, but it is not only the recipient that reads these critiques, many others do also and I'm sure some of them benefit from the advice. Keep em coming I say.


lueders
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Sun Aug 29, 2010 8:25 pm

Interesting post Tony, I think there are certain things that anyone regardless of playing ability innately recognizes in a given performance.

1.) Rhythm -the most primal & basic element and it is what makes the music
ultimately succeed or fail. The average listener or passer-by can
tell when a performance is rhythmically sound or not.

2.) Timing- rushed passages, or passages that seem to be lagging behind affecting the
overall composition. All of us, irregardless of ability struggle with this from
time to time. (I would imagine at least.) I think, if something goes wrong
musically it is usually numbers 1.& 2. that are the culprit.

3.) Overall attack, feel, & unity of the musical piece. Did the composite pieces fit
together? Did it flow nicely? Did the overall attack suit the song? I find this
tough achieve with a relatively new tune. I listened to my Chili Peppers post the
other day and cringed at some of the disjointed sections.

4.) Tone- It is far less important than the others. But it is that warm inviting tone
that can really draw you in. I think 89% of having a good tone is in your
fingers...and the rest is in your pocketbook.
(MEMO TO SELF: Save $$ money for better equipment!)


And, then there are individualized specific areas to improve upon. Me for instance, I
am vocally tone deaf. And 50% of the pitch(es) that I can actually hear I can't make
my voice go there; & I dunno what to do about it.


heyjoe
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Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:31 am

Hi Tony- as others have said, another greater question- when you aren't playing guitar do you go into the thinker pose and come up with stuff like this?

I'm with most of the people on here, in that when I put up a video, I'm looking for people to comment on it, whether its good or bad, however, its the delivery of the critique that matters, not just for me, but for all of us.

Too many "well dones" or "you're great" when you know you aren't isnt going to help, but hearing " you're crap" etc etc isnt going to help either- its all about context, and to an extend, knowing the mindset of the person you are commenting on, and knowing how thick or thin skinned they are when it comes to their guitar playing, and dealing with well intentioned advice, as Bear said.

Putting up videos for comments can help you become a better player, it can also help you develop a thicker skin, and in this life, that aint no bad thing. We dont always have to agree with peoples comments, but I belive Matt & Neil have set up a system here which allows us the freedom to upload videos and receive positive feedback, unlike many other guitar websites, and for that they should be applauded.

Joe


tovo
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Tue Aug 31, 2010 2:39 pm

heyjoe wrote:

Putting up videos for comments can help you become a better player, it can also help you develop a thicker skin, and in this life, that aint no bad thing. We dont always have to agree with peoples comments, but I belive Matt & Neil have set up a system here which allows us the freedom to upload videos and receive positive feedback, unlike many other guitar websites, and for that they should be applauded.

Joe
I so agree Joe that the spirit and tone of feedback on TG sets it apart. That's why I think we should not let it slip. Try posting a tune you are struggling with on Youtube and see what kind of "help" you get. Answer is none, just abusive comments. I also agree with your comment on "thicker skin"...I could use a few extra layers myself at times.

By the way, glad to see you posting.


wadestar
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Tue Aug 31, 2010 3:59 pm

Yes this site has lots of friendly people willing to try and help, that is what puts TG ahead of the rest. Even if it is just a don't give up speach that is support in my eyes.


AcousticAl
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Tue Aug 31, 2010 10:53 pm

I usually comment on songs that I've either worked on myself- or songs that I just know very well from hearing them a gazillion times.

When someone says 'comments welcome' (as most of us do), then I think we should feel free to give advice in a constructive way. Comments also don't necessarily have to be about something that's wrong with someone's playing. It can be a suggestion- a tweak- different accenting- something they can take or leave.

On the other hand, I've also just put up some random videos on here where I wasn't necessarily looking for feedback. Just wanted to show something to the community. I think members just need to be clear of why they're posting and if they actually want feedback.

Comments on my comment welcome.


tovo
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Tue Aug 31, 2010 10:56 pm

AcousticAl wrote:

Comments on my comment welcome.
Al I would certainly like to comment on your comment by saying good comment. Is that fair comment? Comments on my comment on comments being welcome are very welcome.


AcousticAl
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Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:08 pm

tovo wrote:
AcousticAl wrote:

Comments on my comment welcome.
Al I would certainly like to comment on your comment by saying good comment. Is that fair comment? Comments on my comment on comments being welcome are very welcome.
How did I know you'd be Abbott to my Costello, Tony?


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