Positive AND Negative or what?

BigBear
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Thu Feb 03, 2011 6:23 pm

Andy- that is a great question!! Like all of us, I've seen many really poor videos. I really admire someone with the guts to post a poor video.

If the performance is just bad there is a reason why it's bad. Usually it's timing aka feel. Or the player just doesn't know the song very well. So I always try to find something to point out that may be helpful. Even the worst performance has something good about it.

And I think we always have to realize that even a really poor performance may be light years better than the person was a year ago or even a month ago. My rule is if you have to guts to post it I will always find something good, and encouraging to say about it.

My only caveat is when someone has clearly only played the song a few times and then posts a video. If you don't have the respect for the song or the other members of the forum to really TRY to learn the song, I don't have time to either watch it or respond positively to it. I'll just ignore it and let you guys blow sunshine up their tailpipe! lol!

I think it is vitally important to support anyone who posts a video (in moderation). I don't need to see every song you know or your playlist. I've said this before, I don't think the videos are show-and-tell time. I think they should be used to solicit positive helpful comments and to get better.

One of the big reasons TG is so awesome is because of the thoughtful, generous nature of its members. It's critical we keep that going! :cheer:


haoli25
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Thu Feb 03, 2011 6:50 pm

Good question.

I am always mindful that some members have said that they do not get much encouragement at home or from the people close to them about playing the guitar. That encouragement is what makes you want to keep practicing and trying to get better. It is not always easy to judge your own progress at times. If the other members point out that progress and offer constructive criticism, it can only be a good thing.
The negative comments should be left to the other guitar sites.

Bill


Chasplaya
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Thu Feb 03, 2011 11:31 pm

If we were all perfect all we would get is positive comment, we are not al perfect well speaking for myself at least lol. so in order to improve someone needs to point out the 'negatives' by way of constructive criticism, as Dennis has said don't criticise something that the member has no control over and generally don't criticise without providing advice or some guidance e.g When you see someone doing something incorrect and you know exactly which video Neil may have addressed that issue then point them in that direction.

A method we employ at the Police College I work at is simply called the Sandwich method.

http://teacher.scholastic.com/writeit/m ... itique.pdf

Also being tactful helps and remember we are at different levels, someone who sounds crap to you might be extremely pleased that they have gone from really really crap to just crap.

I also think its amusing that know body gets offended when we talk about giving Positive comment only when that nasty word 'negative' comes into play so we turn it euphemistically into constructive criticism.

Another thing I've always been taught is to take ownership of any feedback you may give using 'I' statements about actual fact not solely thoughts... e.g. I heard the incorrect chord or wrong note at bar whatever or I could see you use your thumb when Neil says use such and such a finger..

So essentially nothing in my opinion wrong with negatives but how you use them to turn into a positive for the recipient.


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neverfoundthetime
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Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:02 am

Another good thought provoking thread which adds value to the site. I’m going to make some very personal observations here.

I don’t agree with Dennis about not saying you don’t like a song. Unless you wrote the song you are not responsible for it and it’s quite ok to love a song that someone else dislikes and vice versa. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Whether it’s helpful to voice it? Well, I had no problem at all with Tony’s “underwhelming enthusiasm” for my favourite band the Moody Blues. In fact I enjoy our joking exchanges on the matter… and he even played one of their songs for us so the whole like/don’t like issue had a great pay off apart from being funny. We don’t dwell on songs we hate here anyway and I’d start to get the feeling I’m in church if everyone was loving everything and never said hey, that sucks! I know Den doesn’t think it helpful to say “I don’t like that song”, but if you say you don’t like a song or even think its awful (funny how that word, full of awe, means the opposite) and you say the person performed it well and better than the original, then it’s a legitimate statement and a compliment on the performance giving a very open, honest and discerning view. I agree it’s not necessary to state that you don’t like a song but there again it’s not necessary to play the guitar, I just think no one has reason the be offend by either.

Of course, I am sad if a comment I make causes any hurt feelings as that is never my intention and I am truly sorry in this case (it was me who said I thought the Sad Waltzes song was the worst song I’d ever heard) but I was deliberately overstating the case to then say, I liked what you did and found it entertaining (which is what I felt was the intention). That’s just my sense of humour and with all humour it can miss the mark by a mile when it fails. So, while never wanting to hurt anyone’s feelings, I do still want to be able to comment as I see fit in my own way. I accept folks as they are and mean no one any harm, quite the opposite, and hope folks can accept the way I am including all my quirks, contradictions and errors. That’s my approach to posting on TG and I really enjoy the different approaches by members here with so many diverse personalities across the world all meeting here with one common love of guitar playing.

I feel the intention of the message is the important thing and there will always be room for misunderstandings with written comments in the absence of aural and facial expression. How we feel we stand in our relationships to others plays a big role in how we take on board a comment. I hope folks here feel the friendship I have for them and trust my comments always mean well. Below is an interesting insight on how we “hear” things with four different ears and have much room for miss-interpretation.

Chas’ Sandwich Method of giving feedback is useful … life’s a shit sandwich, just depends how thick the bread is! ;-) http://www.totallyguitars.com/images/fb ... r_Ears.doc


thereshopeyet
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Fri Feb 04, 2011 2:11 pm

Thanks


cosmicmechanic
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Fri Feb 04, 2011 5:05 pm

There's always a way to put a positive slant on possibly sensitive comments.

I think what could help out is a predefined message for these occasions,
and humbly propose the following (for a start?)

=====================

Hi (fill in TG member's handle),

That video was really special, some music is better than it sounds !

Keep up the good work !

(fill in your handle here)

=====================

Pierre
P.S.
Feel free to hit me with this when the time comes (and it will)

Edit: I changed the phrasing a few times since first post,
not sure the joke is obvious ... oh well


thereshopeyet
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Fri Feb 04, 2011 5:10 pm

Thanks


AndyT
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Sat Feb 05, 2011 3:32 am

The Four-eared sandwich. What a mouthful. LOL

I think Dennis has defined the boundaries pretty well. Keep your comments to something that is within the ability of the video poster to change.

I've seen some videos posted that should have been deleted instead of being saved and shared. Namely mine. But the big thing here ties into Tony's thread on being intimidated. This gives a framework of what you can expect when you put your video up for comment.

The other thing is the busking thread. Since it's not really there for comment, more for show, do you feel free to make the same level or kind of comments you would normally?


michelew
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Sat Feb 05, 2011 4:08 am

AndyT wrote:
The Four-eared sandwich. What a mouthful. LOL

I think Dennis has defined the boundaries pretty well. Keep your comments to something that is within the ability of the video poster to change.

I've seen some videos posted that should have been deleted instead of being saved and shared. Namely mine. But the big thing here ties into Tony's thread on being intimidated. This gives a framework of what you can expect when you put your video up for comment.

The other thing is the busking thread. Since it's not really there for comment, more for show, do you feel free to make the same level or kind of comments you would normally?
I couldn't agree more that our comments should either be positive or constructive. If you can't find something to say that fits into one of those categories then you're simply not trying.

But, anyway that's not what I wanted to comment on. I've seen a few comments that suggest that the busking threads are just for show, and maybe I'm being paranoid, but for showing off and that they are not intended to solicit comments. I'd just like to say that whenever I post anything anywhere I welcome constructive criticism. Of course it's nice getting a pat on the back, but if people can see something I can do better and show me how to get there then bring it on. As far as I'm concerned that's just going to make me a better musician. I don't know how others feel, but that's my take.

I post in the busking threads for a number of reasons:

- because someone has started a great thread like the Beatles and I've used it as a prompt to finish a song I've been working on and get it up. It helps with my goals and gives me closure.
- because I've already received lots of reviews from Neil, and because I know that we have lots of experienced and perceptive members who volunteer suggestions anyway
- because it actually takes the pressure off slightly and allows me to relax, a little mind you
- it gives me a chance to learn and upload non-target songs.

I'd be interested to hear why others post in the busking threads instead of the review channel and I think I'll start a new thread on that.

Any way, sorry for the diversion and back to regular programming.

Ta

Michele


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