Small bodied guitars research

rapsidy
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Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:06 pm

Hi guys

I am starting my research now for my next guitar, I brought my first guitar not having a clue that there was different types lol I knew brands but not different models, so I went with a friend as I was using his cheaper to start with and he needed it back as he had someone else who he wanted to lend it to, so we went and picked out a guitar. Now that I have been on TG I regret not doing more research before purchasing, not that I am unhappy with what I have, but it wasn't a choice based on anything other than my mate saying its okay, There could have been something better out there that I liked more. I ended up with a Yamaha FGX720SCA, which came with a case and I payed $750 australian dollars for. Not even sure if that is a good price today or where on the scale of quality my guitar sits, anyone?????

So my when I watched neils lesson on what guitar to buy I have become very interested in what he calls OM guitars small bodied, i think mine is classified as dreadnought.

Now the sought of playing I am interested in is 50/50 fingerpick/strumming, I want to be able to do both equally well and not be limited, probably a bit ambitious but, my attitude is never say never, if he/she can do it why can't I.

I like the idea of something small and light that plays amazing.

Q. I am looking at spending good money, up to $3000 aus ( It is going to be a keeper so I want to get it right)

Q. Do you spend that much money on a small bodied guitar or do you pay a reasonable price for one and buy the dream guitar?

Q what is that dream guitar.. Im not asking brand more model type i.e dreadnought etc..


Being Australian I like to buy Australian, that doesnt mean I wont buy others just if they are comparable I'll buy locally

now I really like the look of the Cole Clarke angel which is about $2000 aus and a mimi maton not sure of their price

are there any others out there that I should consider or be looking at????

your help would be really appreciated as I have a history of buying things without much research and regretting later, I really don't want to do this with this decision i want to get it right


thanks

Brad


willem
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Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:38 am

Hey Brad,,i can only say that it is very personal which one you would buy after getting a huge advice on your question,,,it's the sound you hear by yourself,,its how it feels while playing it by your self etc..i'm curious which advice you get..


BigBear
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Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:30 am

Brad-

I couldn't deduce from your post your reason for wanting a small bodied guitar? Is the dreadnaught too big for you to play comfortably? Or you don't like the sound or too much sound? I not sure I would invest in small bodied or "parlor" guitars without a compelling reason.

There are many famous players who have played smaller guitars. Eric Clapton, Ian Anderson, Joan Baez and many others have made their living with them but they are in the minority.

I respect, and admire, your desire to only buy an Aussie guitar but other than nationalism, getting the guitar you want and with the sound that strokes that inner chord, should be your goal. I admit I know absolutely nothing about Cole Clark or Maton. Chas swears by Cole Clark and I believe Tommy Emanuel plays Maton but we never see them in the States.

I bought a Canadian guitar (Larrivee) and have been very happy with it. But I also own two Taylors and a Les Paul. The acoustics are all in different shapes and have very different sounds. I think I was more concerned with build quality and sound than where they came from.

I would absolutely not spend $3,000 AUS on any guitar before I knew I loved the shape and sound. My Larrivee is a custom L- shape similar to a classical, and I have a jumbo and a Grand Auditoirum shape. This GA shape has really caught on and I believe is Taylor's most popular shape. It has a small body cutaway upper bout and a dreadnaught-sized lower bout. It has great balance in a smaller package.

I know many TGers have this shape and are quite happy with them. I highly recommend you check out this shape because they are very easy to hold and have a great sound.

The "dream guitar" is the one that they will have to pry out of your cold dead hands because you will be in love with it and never let it go. I still have my eye on my dream guitar (a Taylor 914) so I'm not there yet although my Larrivee is very close. No one can tell you what your dream guitar will be. Only you.

But I would definately try out less expensive guitars in various shapes before I bought an expensive OM or OOO-sized guitar. The real small bodied guitars are pretty scarce and I worry about their resale value over time.

Happy hunting! Looking for a new guitar is one of life's great joys! Enjoy every second of it!

Cheers! :cheer:


Lavallee
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Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:14 am

Hi Brad, I have a small body guitar which is not in the price range that you are talking about but I think it sounds reasonably well. If you are playing just for you it sounds OK.The sound between the bass strings and the higher pitch strings sounds balanced. However if you want to make videos or if you need more volume you will need to amplify (that is what I do with a small 15 watt regular amplifier) otherwise because the body is smaller it does not project that bass sounds very loudly and the guitar will sound thin (hearing mainly the small strings). So if you video yourself playing without amplification it will sound pretty thin.

Personally for having tried many guitars since, I still prefer the smaller body as I my stomach is rather low ;) and I feel comfortable strumming and finger picking even when I am standing (I do play sitting as well :laugh: ). When it is amplified you can use the guitar equalizer or the amplifier to emphasize the bass strings and reduce the high pitch strings effect and the guitar sounds like a regular size body . It will still give you easy access to the fretboard without having to bend your back for a better view. It is also more comfortable to play and you can play for a longer time

Good luck and have fun choosing your next best friend

Marc


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Music Junkie
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Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:34 am

Brad:

Bear and Marc have made some great comments. I would PM Chas if I were you to get the lowdown on Cole Clark. He is quite fond of them. I have never seen one here in the states, but from what I have read, they are a great guitar. I currently own two guitars that could be considered small bodied. I have a Martin 000-15, which is a parlor sized guitar made of all mahogany and a Taylor 814ce which has rosewood back and sides with a spruce top. The Taylor is a GA sized (grand auditorium) and it is very comfortable. I had a starter guitar in a dreadnought size, and did not particularly care for it. Course at the time I was just beginning and was probably holding it wrong and doing everything else wrong too.....lol

I think the best thing you could do, is to take your time, go to several stores and play EVERYTHING you can get your hands on. Especially if you are going to pay a good amount of hard earned money. My Taylor was about $2,800.00 US, so I don't know what that means in Aussie money, but it was a fair amount for me. I would highly recommend it, as well as the Martin 000-15 that I have, which sold for only $899.00 (discounted at my local dealer because I shop there too much). Both are wonderful guitars and serve slightly different purposes. Although both handle strumming and picking nicely.

The dream guitar is all about YOU man! Only you can decide what that is, and the only way to form a good opinion, is to do like I said above and play everything you can get your hands on. As you do this, you will start to notice things you like and dislike about differing models and wood types. Eventually you will have a solid idea of what you are looking for.

Sorry that I don't have a quick easy answer, but what i look for in a guitar may or may not be what you are looking for.

Good luck, and have fun shopping..... B) B)

J


coomba
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Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:43 pm

G'day Brad,

I'll be very interested in what you finally decide to spend your hard earned money on.
As I also am considering an up grade for my acoustic (which I paid only $300 AU for and was my first guitar, a low end Martinez dreadnought)
I also know why you would consider the Cole Clarke, as they are beautifully made and the fat lady has an incredible big sound, I don't know about the angle as I have not played or heard one yet but I believe they have become very popular according to my local music store.
Now I must confess I am a Cole Clarke fan as I have one of his electric guitars the Guardian and I have no complaints at all.
The choice for me is simple I'll be buying another Col Clarke the only question is which one and how much to pay and when I can afford it. (I'm also interested in the Angle)

I like you also try to buy locally made products, this in no way is saying they are better than other manufacturers ,its just the way I am with anything I purchase but with something as personal a choice as buying your dream guitar maybe you need to put some blinkers on , hide the price tag , ignore the make , walk in to the store pick out watch catch's your eye and play them all, oh and don't forget to plug it in to try out the pick-ups.

Your $3000 limit should allow you the freedom to pick many guitars off the shelf to try ( oh and by the way Bigbear its quite easy to pay up to $3000 + for a top end guitar,we have for a long time had to pay much more than you guys in the US , close to double the price in some cases and it doesn't seem to matter what the exchange rate is? Price we pay for being on the other side of the world and such a small market I suppose).Having said that there are plenty of great guitars around the $1200 to $2000 AU mark.

As far as shape an size, as the others have said personal choice again, I like the sound of the Dreadnought but I also like the feel of the OM or smaller body and the cut away for running up the neck.
It also depends on how I am playing ie standing or sitting or just lazing around on the lounge, I prefer the smaller body for the later.

Mate good luck in your search for YOUR dream Guitar its a very exiting time for you so enjoy yourself, and don't forget to keep us up dated.

Cheers
Scott

PS I just had a thought if ya play your cards right $3000 could even get you two guitars :woohoo: put some pressure on that poor unsuspecting salesman :lol:


dennisg
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Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:21 pm

Brad,

Congratulations on being in a position everyone in this forum envies: about to buy a guitar. For the record, when I was ready to buy my first big-boy guitar, I did a minimal amount of research, then went out and spent $2000 on the wrong instrument. I knew within a month that it was the wrong guitar for me, so, for my next guitar, I did what I should have done in the first place: got on some forums and asked questions, then went to stores to try to understand the sometimes maddeningly subtle differences in the various guitars.

Speaking of subtle differences, the perfect guitar for you is the one that you feel plays like a dream and sounds just gorgeous. Playability and sound are the two categories you'll need to pay attention to in order to make an informed decision, instead of a rash, impulsive purchase like I made.

Playability

Some of the things to talk to the sales about are neck shape (does it feel comfortable in your fretting hand), string gauge (light gauge vs. medium gauge -- lights tend to be easier to play, mediums are generally louder), and body shape (the various manufacturers have different names for their guitar sizes). The goal here is to pay special attention just to how the guitar feels in your hands, resting on your knee, fretted, and played. The perfect guitar should feel almost like an extension of your body and should never feel like it's getting in your way or causing unnecessary discomfort.

Sound

Just as with playability, there are a lot of things that go into a guitar that affect its general tone. Again, guitar size factors in (the larger the guitar, the louder the sound -- but don't confuse "louder" with "better." That's a rookie mistake.) Most higher end guitars these days come with some type of spruce top wood on them, although you'll occasionally find a cedar top. If you plan on doing any heavy strumming, I'd recommend spruce. Cedar has a warmer, rounder tone, but it's a soft wood that can be over-driven by hard strumming. Next, you'll face a choice of woods that make up the sides and back of the guitar. You'll likely see instruments made from mahogany, rosewood, maple, sapele, ovangkol, or a number of other woods capable of influencing the tone. None is better than another. Whether you like one over another is entirely dependent on your personal tastes.

There are other factors that guitar geeks obsess over, but the ones mentioned above will get you off to a good start on your journey to finding the perfect guitar.

One more thing: I think it's extremely admirable that you want to limit your focus to Cole Clarks and Matons, and if I were an Aussie, that would also be my inclination. But you're in a situation where you're about to spend a huge chunk of change on an instrument that just may accompany you for the rest of your life. That's why I'd make a locally made guitar just one of the many criteria I'd apply to my purchase. Yeah, it would be cool to buy an Aussie-made guitar, but I wouldn't let that decision limit my search. What if, for example, you play a Guild or a Gibson or a Taylor that just "speaks to you" in a way that no Aussie-made guitar does? Are you going to reject them because of their country of origin? Not to beat a dead horse any further, but consider opening up the possibilities to include guitars from any and all manufacturers.

Buy the guitar that makes you dizzy with its fantastic playability and incredible sound. Assuming that guitar fits in my budget, those would be my two most important criteria.


rapsidy
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Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:36 pm

Thanks guys

I know little about guitars and this has really helped.

Bear- the reason mainly comes from watching Neils video and realizing there were other size guitars out there, I might have confused the OM size with the mini jumbo size he plays mostly, after going back and reviewing the video. I like the idea of something that is more comfortable and that i feel more in control of I guess, like everyone says I need to play some first... but I need to be well researched before I go into a store, as If I go in, I usually come out with something :blink: and it may not be right.

Is the GA grand auditorium size comparable to the mini jumbo size that Neil discusses in the beginners acoustic genius series 2 vid and can these size be strummed / picked to the songs on this site without "overdriving" the guitar as my playing will only be to songs similar to the ones on the site. Never hard rock type songs.

music junkie = i will check out your GA taylor as it is a GA are you happy with this guitar

Scott= great to hear from you, I just love the look of the Cole clarkes and they have a good name here, I have you tubed the angel, fat lady and they sound awesome with others playing them. You are right about us paying more for everything. Now would be a good time to buy clarkes as they have dropped in price about $500 over their whole range.

so my next question is then where can I find out more info on Grand auditorium size guitars and or mini jumbo, i read the thread on mcfingers new mini maton or taylor? is that like a GA size, its all a bit confusing

Dennis- thanks for the understanding about wood types and sounds I didnt realize how deep this could be as my knowledge is starting at zero, so I have a bit to learn before buying.

Just to clear up what brand of guitar I would buy, I t definately would be the best one I like no matter who made it or where it come from, I just meant if the guitars were comparable I would go aus. The cole clarkes and Matons have a good name in Aus, I believe Mr emmanuelle has used Matons and even has a model named after him. Plus Cole Clarkes are stunning to look at.

To my US friends just google/ youtube and have a look listen.

cheers

Brad


MarkM
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Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:29 pm

Brad,

You have gotten some great information here and good advice to get you on your way to finding your next guitar. I'll reiterate what Dennis and others have said in that you should take your time and be open to the possibilities. In the end the guitar will choose you. As for my own experience. I currently have two guitars and FINALLY don't have an overwhelming need to look for another at this moment. You see these two from time to time in my videos. One is a Dred (Taylor DN8) and the other which I'm fast falling in love with is my Taylor 714 LTD which is a GA body style. I had always had a dred and liked the deep boomy bass and volume that it produced. I had never considered looking at another body style until I started to learn how to fingerpick. I had searched for quite some time and finally one day the 714 LTD grabbed me and didn't let go. I am so happy that I looked to see what else was out there. If I had to choose, and I'm glad I don't, between the two I would have to say that I'd keep the the GA. It's not as loud (light strings instead of the mediums I have on the Dred) but it is sweeter in just about every way. The over tones are rediculous and it plays as smooth as butter. I can fingerpick (well try to anyway) and strum with it. Just not as loud. It is a bit more comfortable but by no means is the dred uncomfortable to me. It just fits better. That being said, when I want to play a Neil Young song there really is no question that I'll go to the Dred for that one. Not sure if this helps at all Brad. In the end though keep searching and eventually the guitar will tell you it's the one.




MarkM


BigBear
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Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:18 am

rapsidy wrote:
Bear- the reason mainly comes from watching Neils video and realizing there were other size guitars out there, I might have confused the OM size with the mini jumbo size he plays mostly, after going back and reviewing the video. I like the idea of something that is more comfortable and that i feel more in control of I guess, like everyone says I need to play some first... but I need to be well researched before I go into a store, as If I go in, I usually come out with something :blink: and it may not be right.

Is the GA grand auditorium size comparable to the mini jumbo size that Neil discusses in the beginners acoustic genius series 2 vid and can these size be strummed / picked to the songs on this site without "overdriving" the guitar as my playing will only be to songs similar to the ones on the site. Never hard rock type songs.

Brad- the short answer is no. My jumbo has a very large lower bout and is very rounded. The mini jumbo appears to be similar.

The GA shape is basically a dreadnaught lower bout with a smaller, Grand Concert or smaller, cutaway upper bout. The GA shape has exceptional balance but doesn't seem to have the "boominess" of a dreadnaught. I believe dreads were developed to allow players to have more sound on stage. They aren't subtle. A jumbo has a huge sound, very large bass and works exceptionally well with 12 strings which are typically treble- heavy.

Another option I didn't mention is to check out the Grand Concert size guitars. Check out Taylor's website to see what that shape looks like. A lot of people looking for something smaller are falling for this shape. But I still think the GA is a better compromise.

Since many/most acoustic guitars can be amplified I think the amount of sound is less important than having good balance and good electronics. If you intend to play unamplified most of the time, your sound criteria will be different.


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