POLL Inside - thinking of boning my guitar...

michelew
Posts: 87
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2009 5:43 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia
Status: Offline

Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:40 am

Scott,

In Australia at least it's mostly cow bone.

Sydney Guitar Setups has a fancy Plek machine that does precision set ups, including carving and installing new bone saddles and nuts to suit the specifications of your guitar and your playing style.

I got them to install a new nut as the action on my Larrivee had been lowered too much for my taste (almost no movement). I'm actually thinking of getting a slightly higher saddle too as I'm getting buzzing even with medium strumming.

It's not at all cheap, but I found them to be very professional. They do know what they are doing.

They may be able to recommend someone in your area.

Michele


wiley
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 7:26 am
Status: Offline

Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:10 am



wrench
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 3:12 pm
Status: Offline

Thu Mar 03, 2011 12:55 pm

AndyT wrote:
The vibration of the strings is transmitted to the body of the guitar through the nut and saddle.
If you take a plastic, tusq, and bone version of each of these you will find that the bone has the highest density and gives the best transmission. I had mine replaced with bone. I listened to all three before making my decision.

Plastic has a flat response across the whole spectrum of sound.
Tusq has substantially more response on the higher and lower frequencies but flat in the middle range.
Bone gives a more improved response across the whole range.

If you drop each of them on a hard surface table, you can hear the difference.

Needless to say, I went with the bone. My luthier hand carved the nut and saddle to fit my guitar.

Bridge pins can help, but not so much. They really don't transmit much of the sound.
When you drop parts on a table, you hear the bouncing of the part, not its resonant frequencies. To get correct vibration data, I sat parts upright on the table, then pushed them over so as not to bounce. Surprisingly, plastic, bone and TUSQ have very similar frequency ranges, but bone and TUSQ have much higher amplitudes. Bridge pin material is not as important as the fit of the hole. The hole needs its taper to match that of the pin. Beyond that, lighter material is better, i.e. wood or plastic instead of bone or TUSQ. Poorly matched tapers, however, will kill sound, regardless of material. All of my opinions here are derived through spectrum analysis.


wrench
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 3:12 pm
Status: Offline

Thu Mar 03, 2011 1:07 pm

wiley wrote:

"Ex: We buy an axe with 'light' gauge strings (as most usually come with) Lets say our E (the fat one) is of .53 gauge. We then decide to make the strings easier to play, and change to extra lights, with an E of .46 gauge."

They're pretty big strings. You might want to check the decimal place.


"To start, our string is now .035 higher off the frets just by the change in size alone."

Are you sure about that? Doesn't the new string, regardless of its smaller diameter, rest on the same surfaces (the bottom of the nut slot and the top of the saddle) as the original string?


wiley
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 7:26 am
Status: Offline

Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:43 pm



wrench
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 3:12 pm
Status: Offline

Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:45 pm

wiley wrote:
Wrench,

Nice catch, I don't think anyone, even SRV, could bend a .53" string!! Sorry about that, proof reader was out for a bathroom break.

As for the difference in size (gauge) dependent upon string height (clearance) you, of course, again make perfect sense. It should make no difference in height if we lay a half inch (0.50") string or a 0.047" string onto the same platforms. The 'bottom' of the line would remain the same!

However (and I'm looking to get your response to see if I'm correct in my thoughts here) the tension between the two differing sizes alone would (or could) make a difference?

Then, we take into account the groove of the nut. If it's cut and shaped for a 0.053 set-up and we install either a size or two below or above, we again create a new dynamic? In my thoughts, and experience (as though they matter) increasing or decreasing the amount of tension and/or slack/tightness of a particular subject does change the dynamics as a whole. And, we can agree (I suppose) that larger size strings do create (or need) more tension to be 'in tune' (or tone) as directed such towards smaller sized ones.

So, in short, what is your take on say, taking a guitar set-up from the manufacturer for lights (0.012>0.054) and then, changing the strings to say extra-lights (0.010>0.047). How does this effect the set-up?
I completely agree that smaller gauge strings have lower tension, making them noticeably more comfortable to fret, and then you can lower the action of lighter strings because of their shorter excursion. I generally regard steel string guitar a barbaric instrument, but for folks who are really suffering, extra light strings and a soft setup certainly make guitar as comfortable as it can get. At the other end of the spectrum, I've taken a lot of pain to play guitar, but those .53's are too much for me! :laugh:

Hmmm, the nut. Well, I have some strange theories about the nut. In another thread, Andy mentioned that the nut and saddle both transmit string energy to the guitar, and I agree with him. I don't think many people realize how much the nut can impact sound because they have never heard one made or installed in an optimal manner. I firmly believe that nearly no tech, luthier, or manufacturer makes or installs a nut that would suit me. Back to your point though, in your example you mentioned changing string gauges by as much as two sizes when the nut was sized for .053. I would make a nut for every gauge I use on the guitar. Loose slots can buzz and wear, and tight slots will raise the string until it cuts up the slot. If the nut with small slots happens to be TUSQ, it will cut the strings, as TUSQ contains glass.

So, how would I change a setup to move from .053 to .047? Loosen the truss rod a little, new nut, and lower the saddle under the premise that the player is looking for reduced tension and/or easier playability. I would develop a set of dimensions and do the setup only after after interviewing the player.


sbutler
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 6:50 pm
Status: Offline

Sat Mar 05, 2011 5:58 pm

Chris, just an FYI.

Not all Ivory is from Elephants. However legally harvested elephant tusk's are available.

Here in Alaska, the Native people of the coastal areas still can and DO hunt Walrus for subsistence. They are also very skilled artist's who can do amazing things with Walrus tusk (ivory). It is also legal for them to sell the ivory they harvest.

Not being a Native, I can not hunt walrus so I can' t harvest the ivory the same as the Natives. However, just like any creature on this planet, Walrus die of old age and wash up on the beaches on the Western coast of Alaska, and I can collect ivory from the carcass's. That is IF I want to wade through 25 Brown Bears to get it.

Scott

Scott


sws626
Posts: 0
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 1:00 am
Status: Offline

Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:11 am

I voted "no," because I haven't done this myself. But not because I don't think it is a valuable thing to do. The nut and saddle of my guitar are both bone from the factory. If that weren't the case, I would probably have a luthier do it, though, rather than mess with it myself.

-Stuart


Chasplaya
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:41 pm
Status: Offline

Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:53 pm

I'm guessing that you mean the saddle when you say replace the Bridge. If that's the case I've chosen option 3 , I've done this more than once now. The pins only cos I broke one or two taking them out and replaced with the same material, plastic. One saddle which was plastic I replaced with Bone not due to the sound but because the action was all wrong. And the Nuts I've replaced have been TUSQ, before one was plastic and one was Bone. None of the tasks was difficult, I took my time and followed the instructions on Frets.com , certainly the first time. I have a friend with Fret files who has done that before and I took my lead from him when cutting the slots in the Nut.

The replacement choices were due mainly to availability of components at the time, nothing to do with sound dynamics. However, now I've learned a bit more about these things , thanks to this site, I will use TUSQ in future, bit more eco friendly and I've experienced a positive difference in the guitars I've done this to.

The first time was a wee bit daunting, but I had little choice as we don't have quality Luthiers close to where I live.


Post Reply Previous topicNext topic