Harmonica - is it worth the time?

lueders
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Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:33 pm

Yeah, cool post Jay. I would love to know more about this topic, too.
I too think in the hands of the right person they can add so much variety & intrigue to a tune.

I have a C harp and have messed with it some. I find it hard to isolate notes and get a clear distinct
note...especially when " drawing in"...trying to bend notes is another story. It usually sounds like somebody
stepped on a duck! lol)

I usually end up sliding up or down to far...or simply missing the targeted note. I haven't figured out yet how to
use the tongue to cover up the right slot at the right time. (ex. I will get CEG, or EG when all want is a "G" note.) I
don't want to sound like Dylan does when he plays the harp. I am not a big fan of that big sloppy: "that's close
enough" style he has. Neil Young mainly just draws and blows. But I dunno it just sounds ten times more musical to
me.John Popper of Blues Traveler is really awesome but that is almost overkill. I'll never be able to do that stuff
anyway. lol!One minor annoyance with harmonicas in my opinion is that unless you're gonna play "cross harp" it is
kind of a pain to have to buy a new harmonica everytime you
wanna play a song in a different key. (even though they aren't that costly.)
You really do need one for most of the guitar friendly keys.
I was messing around with Neil Young's" Long May You
Run" the day before yesterday and I thought I'm going to buy a D harp for that. I tried playing the song in C so I could use my trusty C harp but it sounds like crap.

Anyways I'm curious to pick someones brain here, who knows a whole lot more about this than I do...


pbraun
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Sat Apr 02, 2011 5:13 pm

Well I bought a cheap set, haven't done much with it since I posted Heart of Gold-time to move on. But driving home today I was listening to Neil Young unplugged and it got me reved up again to try it again. I will check the lesson site for help. Also when I first tried to play it I would keep it in the car and try to play along with the song, it seemed to help somewhat.
Good post, the harp can add so much, I think it's worth the try.
Pete


thereshopeyet
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Sat Apr 02, 2011 5:14 pm

Thanks


Chasplaya
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Sat Apr 02, 2011 5:42 pm

Hi, Whilst I haven't taken the plunge yet I am a member of this site for Blues harp, I find that Lee appears to be a good teacher.

http://www.blowtheblues.com/index.htm


willem
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Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:48 pm

lesson 1: BREATHING.. AND LINKS





jayswett
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Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:19 am

Thanks for the comments, thoughts, and links. My sense is that this is a course worth pursuing and will look in to this further at my local music store. There must be some good CD Roms out there to help beginners, in addition to the online videos.


willem
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Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:52 am

Hey jay,,don't know abaut the cd roms,,the diatonic is just a scale where you can experiment with,,maybe a book with some basic information and maybe listen to some folks that made playing the harp famous,,most of all i love the bleus ..Juke by Litlle Walter is my favorite one,,well to listen too ,i can't play it..






beaker
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Mon Apr 04, 2011 2:24 pm

Is the harmonica worth the time? Oh yeah! it sure is! I got a few harmonica's in a few different keys and just went for it. It is easy to hit the right notes.... although admittedly I hit some wonky ones sometimes. But oh well, it is all the name of experimentation. So for my two cents, I would say, don't over think this, just go for it! My favourite songs to play on are Heart of Gold, Out on the Weekend and I Shall be Released by Bob Dylan. Beaker.


Hydroman52
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Sun Apr 10, 2011 7:09 pm

Hi Jay,

In the video (heatndude), Jerry is using a harp in the Key of A for Out on the Weekend. He’s quite good at figuring this stuff out. He is already using some note bending techniques, and he just picked it up last December. I think he used a harp in the Key of G for Heart of Gold.

During the jam session, Mark (heatndude) got us rolling on a Tom Petty song that has a signature harmonica solo. The song is in the Key of Am, and Jerry pulled out a harp in the Key of A thinking that it would work, however, the solo uses a C (which is in the Key of Am) and the A harmonica has a C# and no C, so he couldn’t get it and it must be too difficult to bend to it. Then I suggested that he try a harp in the Key of C since its relative minor is Am and they both share the same notes. The solo is very simple (C, B, C, B, A), but it didn’t sound right on the C harp. We never quite figured this out before we called it quits for the day. The next day I did a little bit of research and found that you can play Am (in 3rd position) on a harp in the Key of G. I passed this information on to Jerry, and, a couple of days later, he had the harp solo worked out on the G harp. I think that when he gets the bending techniques all figured out like Willem mentions, he’ll be able to expand his playing considerably.



The rest of this is pure conjecture on my part and would like others with more knowledge to check it out and comment . . . . or just ignore it altogether.

The other thing that Willem mentions is playing “cross harp” (2nd position). From what I understand, the formula to figure out what key harp to use for playing cross harp, you would add five half tones to the key of the song. So, if you are playing a song in the Key of G, you would add five half tones to derive that you would need to play it cross harp with a harmonica in the Key of C.

G + 1 half tone = G#
G# + 1 half tone = A
A + 1 half tone = A#
A# + 1 half tone = B
B + 1 half tone = C

Here is a thought . . . . . if you have harmonicas in only one or two keys, couldn’t you transpose the song or capo your guitar to match the key of your harmonica? Then you could at least get a handle on playing the song to see if it is worthwhile to buy one in the actual key in which you would play the song in order to match your singing. The voicing might be a little odd, but you might get an idea of how to play it. I’m not sure if this works, because I just don’t know that much about it. Consider this:

Heart of Gold is normally in the Key of G and played with a Key of G harmonica. If you only have a Key of A harmonica, capo your guitar at the second fret and play with the same chord shapes as you normally would, and then the Key of A harmonica should work (at least it seems to reason out that way, right?). Or you could transpose the chords Em7, D, Em, C, and G to F#m7, E, F#m, D, and A respectively (right?).

So, lets say you and Neil Young are sitting around a campfire, and he only has a harmonica in the Key of E in his shirt pocket, and he wants to play Heart of Gold cross harp on it . . . . . . in what key would you need to play the guitar to accompany him (is this beginning to look like a grade school math problem)?

This is how I see it . . . . . . . and let me remind you, this is only conjecture (what do I know) . . . . .

The song is normally played in the Key of G, and we’ve already established that the corresponding harp to use for cross harp playing is in the Key of C (the key of the song raised five half tones). Now all that we need to do is determine how many half tones it is from the Key of C (the correct cross harp key to play in the Key of G) and the Key of E (the key of Neil Young’s harp), and then apply those to the Key of G (the key of the song).

Here we go . . . .

C + 1 half tone = C#
C# + 1 half tone = D
D + 1 half tone = D#
D# + 1 half tone = E

The difference is four half tones (two full tones). Now let’s apply that to the Key of G.

G + 1 half tone = G#
G# + 1 half tone = A
A + 1 half tone = A#
A# + 1 half tone = B

As I see it, in order to accompany Neil Young performing Heart of Gold in cross harp (2nd position) using a harmonica in the Key of E, I will need to either capo the guitar up to the 4th fret and play the same chord shapes as the Key of G (this should give you the Key of B ), or transpose Em7, D, Em, C, and G to G#m7, F#, G#m, E, and B respectively. That would be a lot of barre chords, so I would probably opt for the capo approach.

Of course, this would never happen, because if I were sitting around a campfire with Neil Young, I would have had a beer or two, and, after a beer or two, I would never be able to figure this all out.

My point is that, if you only have a couple of harps in different keys, you should be able to tune the guitar to that key just like you are able to tune to your singing voice.


Hydroman52


jayswett
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Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:47 pm

Wow. Thanks for the detailed responsed. I need to print this out and study it.


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