Styles v. Songs: How do you learn?

sws626
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Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:01 am

I've been spending quite a lot of my time studying up on rockabilly and working my way through pretty much every DVD, book and Youtube video I can lay my hands on. One things I've noticed about all this material is that the emphasis is almost exclusively on learning riffs and techniques in the style of various artists. This is great in the sense that it builds up a vocabulary, but also frustrating in the sense that, depsite many weeks of work, I cannot play any recognizable tune from beginning to end.

So I thought I'd ask you all how you've progressed best when exploring a new genre. Do you just pick your favorite songs and try to learn them? Or do you immerse yourself in the style until the music just emerges from you?

One of the things that really attracted me to TG was that fact that, although it was very much oriented around lessons on particular songs, Neil also made a point of emphasizing the development of new techniques and talking about how they could be used elsewhere.

To judge from the other very prominent online guitar site where there are many hundreds of lessons on styles of playing, but very few on specific songs, the approach at TG is not necessarily the norm and those of us who have settled here may already have self-selected in the direction of Neil's approach.

But, since I'm not expecting a bunch of new Eddie Cochran songs on TG anytime soon, I'd like to hear your experience about moving from learning the styles that are distinctive of a genre like the blues, or bluegrass, or rockabilly, and applying them to learning to play tunes that someone else may want to hear.

-Stuart


KennyF
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Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:29 am

Stuart,

I think that every style has a particular musicality (good grammar, huh?) and physical skill set that needs to be developed. Some require more devotion than others.

If rockabilly is truly your thing, then I think you're on the right track. Listen, learn and play it all the time.

For what it's worth, I know very few players who are great at, let's say, Fusion Jazz, who are also killer acoustic finger pickers, and are also monster shred metal players... Ya know what I mean? A lot of guys can do all of those things, but there's usually one thing that they excel at, and it's usually the thing that's near and dear to them.

Does that make any sense?

Kenny


BigBear
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Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:37 pm

Stuart- Excellent question and as always Kenny is spot on. I think our first challenge as guitarists is to learn the basics; basic chords, barres, scales and scale patterns, basic finger-picking, plectrum picking etc. Then as our skill and confidence grows we begin to branch out toward musical styles we enjoy.

But all musical "styles" are built around the basics. For example the blues includes a flatted 3rd that gives it a unique sound. Then this coupled with timing, attack, and a whole world full of riffs, runs, vamps etc. creates the "blues guitar" sound. My sense is that rockabilly is heavily influenced by the blues.

Or bluegrass, which is considered a forerunner of rockabilly, is built around very fast, individual notes in basic keys using intense chord soloing. Nothing could be easier than bluegrass until you try to learn to alternate and cross pick at that speed with complete accuracy.

My point is as we become better basic guitarists it makes sense to branch off into styles that we enjoy. We can start with basic chords but the fun begins when we add all the "stuff" that defines that style. "Wreck of the Old 97" can be a basic strummer, an intricate bluegrass picker or a rockabilly stomper just by changing the techniques employed.

So back to your question, I've been trying to learn the blues (in my spare time LOL!). The only success I've had is by watching videos and reading riff books and trying to incorporate these new techniques.

I'll close by saying the best thing I've ever done (after joining the TARGET program) is buy the CD's for a series called "Let's Jam". Ten bucks on line. These are just really good backing tracks of various styles in various keys. I put them on and loop them over and over while I try to incorporate these new techniques. They have an acoustic CD, a jazz, a couple of rock etc. I very highly recomment these as a practice tool.

Good luck buddy. I think we all suffer the same frustrations! :cheer:


tovo
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Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:53 pm

Hey Stuart good question.

I recognise that it's important to cover different styles to become a more versatile player. I do that by taking on tunes that have the particular technique I want to learn. Given that is how Neil picks his Target tunes it's relatively easy to do. Without trying to sound like I work for TG (again) I think that's the genius of Target. It's less about learning song A and more about learning techniques via song A that will help in learning a heaps of tunes that incorporate the same techniques. That always struck me as a lot more fun than just sitting and practicing techniques (although I do see the value of that as well). I believe you are a pretty experienced player so I'm sure you are looking to refine techniques in most cases rather than learning them from scratch, perhaps the exception being rockabilly that you are focused on right now. Good luck.


AndyT
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Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:14 am

Kenny and Rick covered it pretty well but I'd like to add that you can change the sound and apparent style of your playing by changing your rhythm.

Lets look at House of the Rising Sun for example.
If you do a solid eighth note strumming pattern, it's going to have a Rock sound. If you do more of a 1,3 pattern, you will get a blues feel. Try a slow Bass-Up pattern and you'll have country all the way.

A huge part of learning a new style is learning how to play the rhythm for it. Get that down and you will be halfway there.


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neverfoundthetime
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Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:43 am

I guess I have learned all the songs I play more or less the same way. I hear a song I want to play and find a way to play it. It will usually be a campfire version, nice and simple but ok for singing along to. If there is a little riff or bass line in the song that's not too hard to learn I'd add that too. Neil's teaching style is so good because it allows you to learn this way and at the same time gives you lots of different aspects to work on so that your playing becomes more competent and sophisticated. And he's showing so many components which easily fit into many other songs. It's a brilliant and natural way of teaching the guitar making so much information and so many techniques more easily accessible to a very broad band of learners. That's why I'm here.... the teaching style and the songs fit very nicely with the way I want to learn. I have little interest in focusing on a particular style of play but will incorporate anything I pick up incidentally along the way.


sws626
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Thu Apr 21, 2011 5:39 am

Thanks Kenny, Rick, Tony, Andy & Chris for your thoughtful replies. Up to now, I've learned pretty much the way Chris and Tony have described -- picking a song a like, maybe, if the well-known arrangements have techniques I haven't yet mastered, developing a simplified version first and then working on those new techniques. Neil's method is absolutely fantastic for learning in this way and I am deeply indebted to him for getting me back on track over the past year or so. When I'm looking for a new song to learn, and not just for something to add to my repertoir, I'm usually looking for one that will challenge me to develop new techniques. There's certainly a vast amount of material in the Target program to support this approach and I should acknowledge Neil's lesson on 'Stray Cat Strut' for reinforcing my interest in the style of music I'm exploring now.

Recently I've wanted to up my game -- and also to spend a bit more time with my ES-335, which has been feeling mighty neglected -- which is one of the reasons I've grown interested in rockabilly. Although I always admired the guitar playing of the late fifites and got a kick out of the Blasters and the Stray Cats when they appeared on the scene, I'd been just a casual listener and didn't really know much about this style of music. One of the things I did recognize that attracted me to it was that that the virtuosity of the guitar playing was so integral to the rhythms and chord progressions of the songs so that it seemed possible to capture the feel as a soloist without band.

Some of the features and techniques characteristic of -- but certainly not unique to -- this style of music that I'm exploring now are the dominance of major scales with flattened thirds and fifths (as opposed to the minor blues scale), the sixth, seventh and thirteenth chord variations, the double stop solos, the slapback echo, and the variety of approaches to Travis picking (sometimes with bare fingers, as I believe Scotty Moore played, and sometime hybrid picking, as would be necessary to get bite in the bass notes and if the song has any cross picking in it). I think what I am experiencing is there is so much that is new to me here and all aspects of it are at work in almost any interesting song, so the immersion process just takes a lot longer than working with techniques I've at least known about, if not mastered, over the past 40 years of messing about with the guitar.

Kenny, I completely agree that most really fantastic guitar players have found a kind of music that they are passionate about and excel in that area.

Rick, I'd be interested in hearing more about your experience with exploring the blues and will check out the "Let's Jam" tracks.

Andy, I guess you've figured out that I'm not looking to play a rockabilly version of 'House of the Rising Sun,' but it does give me some ideas of how I might try using some of these techniques I'm struggling to learn in songs I already know well to give them some context.

-Stuart


KennyF
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Thu Apr 21, 2011 5:40 am

Stuart,

Others have touched on the important issues of general understanding of music and level of skill, which I didn’t address at all. These are givens, of course.

I think it’s important to point out that some people view “skill level” as rungs on a ladder, while “I” like to view skill level as more of a cargo net. Meaning that, while we’re all climbing upwards, in terms of skill, we may not all be on the same path, or place on the net. The one thing that we all have in common, or at least I would like to think so, is that we are all perpetually learning and developing.

By the way, when I mention “skill level”, I’m not referring to Neil’s skill level definitions. Those references are more for Neil as a teacher; a way for him to keep track of where a student is in “his” curriculum.

Okay, back to the topic…

Depending on your personal knowledge and skill level, your passion for a given style and the complexity of that style, you may or may not need to adjust the amount of time and attention that you give to that particular style.

And here’s the big catch…

Learning the nuts and bolts of a given style is the easy part. Putting those nuts and bolts into practice is a lifelong endeavor. You have to “hear it” and just as important, “feel it”.

A good example of this is one of Neil’s video lessons. When Neil is playing for a lesson, he plays very deliberate. The reason that he does this is because he knows that his students are going to hang on every note and stroke of the pick, so he wants to be very clear in his approach. Those are the nuts and bolts. However, if you watch a video, or listen to a recording of Neil “performing”, there’s a major difference. Now you are hearing Neil as a “player” and “artist”, not a teacher.

Kenny


AndyT
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Thu Apr 21, 2011 6:08 am

Stu,

Yeah, I was pretty sure you were not looking to do 'House' rockabilly style, but just in case....



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