Hi Folks,
To go along with Tony's request, I would like to start this thread on my current challenge( I have plenty more but this one, I am paying attention to it).
I am not sure how interesting this topic is for everybody, but I have been working on alternate picking for a while. I do not find that my abilities are improving with great stride (more like baby steps).
So I was wondering if you guys are practicing that aspect and if you have any exercises that you would recommend. It could be also what someone is struggling with , which could get the discussion rolling.
My specific demons are accuracy, hand position, and when traveling long distance (like an upstroke on the B string and a down stroke on the A string).
Cross picking could also be discussed
Marc
Alternate picking
Great idea for a thread, Marc...
1.) My biggest hurdle right now is changing time signatures within a song. I am usually okay when I can lock in and
just play the eight note or quarter note pulse type songs through-out...in 4/4, 3/4, and usually 6/8. Most songs
do this sort of thing...if you really think about it so we don't always work on mixed time sigs/mixed rhythym stuff
like that.When the signature does change abruptly, or goes into heavily syncopated part and then switches
back to a more standard thing I often have lost the feel/flow of the tune.. at that point.
Sometimes this is a real head-trip for me...
2.) Limitations with hybrid picking is also something I want to work on. Jay Crocket and Dennis are two guys I would
love to emulate in this regard. Also, Daryl does some really unique & intersting stuff in his style of playing that
sort of bridges finger picking and flat picking worlds. I like both for different reasons but they both have their
limitations as well. I am after a style that incorporates the benefits of both.
3.) Memory...it is a real hurdle in learning and remembering tunes.
****EDIT: Yikes! From the look of things...based on other comments. I clearly misunderstood the
assignment.Sorry, Marc. Didn't mean to get away from the point of the thread quite so much. Doh!
1.) My biggest hurdle right now is changing time signatures within a song. I am usually okay when I can lock in and
just play the eight note or quarter note pulse type songs through-out...in 4/4, 3/4, and usually 6/8. Most songs
do this sort of thing...if you really think about it so we don't always work on mixed time sigs/mixed rhythym stuff
like that.When the signature does change abruptly, or goes into heavily syncopated part and then switches
back to a more standard thing I often have lost the feel/flow of the tune.. at that point.
Sometimes this is a real head-trip for me...
2.) Limitations with hybrid picking is also something I want to work on. Jay Crocket and Dennis are two guys I would
love to emulate in this regard. Also, Daryl does some really unique & intersting stuff in his style of playing that
sort of bridges finger picking and flat picking worlds. I like both for different reasons but they both have their
limitations as well. I am after a style that incorporates the benefits of both.
3.) Memory...it is a real hurdle in learning and remembering tunes.
****EDIT: Yikes! From the look of things...based on other comments. I clearly misunderstood the
assignment.Sorry, Marc. Didn't mean to get away from the point of the thread quite so much. Doh!
Marc- Good topic! I think alternate picking is an important thing to learn but I'm not convinced that we should get hung up about it. That being said, great alternate and cross pickers like Steve Kaufman have made a career on the speed that this picking helps achieve. This is especially true of bluegrass wher speed is King with their National Flatpicking competitions (which are absolutely amazing to watch!!).
I will say that I'm a much better alternate picker now than I was before TARGET. I think I alternate picked by accident before Neil and now I deliberately try to incorporate it into my playing. And I think it does aid speed and accuracy by keeping the hand and pick at the same string.
The exercise I use the most, by far, is to play all the scales up and down the neck with perfect alternating picking. No cheating!! It has gotten much easier and my accuracy has really improved, although I'm a long way from being happy with it!
I think this is another one of those "Practice, practice, practice" things.
Good luck Marc! I think the changes here will be more subtle, and thus not very apparent day-to-day. :cheer:
I will say that I'm a much better alternate picker now than I was before TARGET. I think I alternate picked by accident before Neil and now I deliberately try to incorporate it into my playing. And I think it does aid speed and accuracy by keeping the hand and pick at the same string.
The exercise I use the most, by far, is to play all the scales up and down the neck with perfect alternating picking. No cheating!! It has gotten much easier and my accuracy has really improved, although I'm a long way from being happy with it!
I think this is another one of those "Practice, practice, practice" things.
Good luck Marc! I think the changes here will be more subtle, and thus not very apparent day-to-day. :cheer:
Hi Marc,
Good question. I've been working on this in the context of a couple of songs and a few exercises that aren't really songs, but incorporate a lot of different kinds of challenges. I find this a lot more helpful (not to mention easier to motivate) than practices these techniques on scale patterns.
Baby steps are the key. As has been said many times, there's a clear route -- through simple repetition -- from accurately playing at a slow tempo to accurately playing at speed -- but there is no route from sloppily playing at speed to accurately playing at speed.
I don't play these exercises with a metronome, but I am very conscious of which part of the beat and which beat in the measure each up and down stroke is on.
Some of the most difficult right-hand challenges for me involve work on adjacent strings. For example, a phrase that has a down stroke on the high E followed by an upstroke on the B -- I find that much harder to do than an upstroke on the high E followed by a downstroke on the B. But I know it will come with practice.
Hand position: At the moment, I'm tending to very lightly rest the corner of my palm (pisiform bone, I think, where the pinky side of the palm meets the forearm) on the bridge to keep my right hand position steady. That also puts it in a good position for muting. I know that a lot of people anchor their pinky, but that limits hand motion too much for my taste.
-Stuart
-Stuart
Good question. I've been working on this in the context of a couple of songs and a few exercises that aren't really songs, but incorporate a lot of different kinds of challenges. I find this a lot more helpful (not to mention easier to motivate) than practices these techniques on scale patterns.
Baby steps are the key. As has been said many times, there's a clear route -- through simple repetition -- from accurately playing at a slow tempo to accurately playing at speed -- but there is no route from sloppily playing at speed to accurately playing at speed.
I don't play these exercises with a metronome, but I am very conscious of which part of the beat and which beat in the measure each up and down stroke is on.
Some of the most difficult right-hand challenges for me involve work on adjacent strings. For example, a phrase that has a down stroke on the high E followed by an upstroke on the B -- I find that much harder to do than an upstroke on the high E followed by a downstroke on the B. But I know it will come with practice.
Hand position: At the moment, I'm tending to very lightly rest the corner of my palm (pisiform bone, I think, where the pinky side of the palm meets the forearm) on the bridge to keep my right hand position steady. That also puts it in a good position for muting. I know that a lot of people anchor their pinky, but that limits hand motion too much for my taste.
-Stuart
-Stuart
Alternate picking was the style I first learned. Only later did I start learning cross picking. I still struggle with it for sure (flatpicking not being my strength) but I do feel I'm getting better at it. I like Bear's idea of picking up the neck, but I am not a dedicated person when it comes to exercises like that. I know they're good for me, but I loathe doing them. So I usually just try to practice the technique with songs I'm working on.
Suzi
Suzi
Marc,
For agility i do a chromatic scale up and down the neck focusing on accuracy and then speed. Over time this has helped me. I like to do scales too like bear, but sometimes i get tired of them and forget them so the chromatic is a no brainer for me. It also helps me warm up too. (excellent topic by the way)
Mike
For agility i do a chromatic scale up and down the neck focusing on accuracy and then speed. Over time this has helped me. I like to do scales too like bear, but sometimes i get tired of them and forget them so the chromatic is a no brainer for me. It also helps me warm up too. (excellent topic by the way)
Mike
Great question Marc. I really like alternate picking. I actually think it is a lot of fun to do and I can see the efficiencies in the technique. I find it works well for some tunes but not for others where cross-picking seems to be better. I have heard an argument that alternate picking actually SOUNDS better even if the player keeps good timing on the cross-picking. I'm not convinced on that one. I can't see why it would sound any better, assuming that the timing is not an issue.
Thanks for input guys
Cori: don't worry any discussion is a good discussion. I would think that time signature, even though not so easy in general, does not increase much the challenge of alternate picking since your hand should follow the rhythm as if you were strumming.
Hybrid picking , that is another challenge, it would be interesting to have some advice . The memory (muscle memory in this case) also apply to alternate picking as it takes a while to have the accuracy because we pick the wrong string for a while (a long while)
Hi Rick, thanks for taking the time to comment. I agree that is not mandatory to learn it, but I find that it gives a great tool to make some run downs more fluid . I saw some videos of flat pikers competitions and this is amazing. Because I do not practice scales (I find difficult to have the discipline to do them ) I did not think to use them to practice but if want to improve, I will need to use them, thanks for the reminder . You must be pretty darn good since you have been advocating this aspect of practice for a long time. As you said no cheating makes you much better. Before TG I did not even know the technique, this is why I was focusing only on fingerpicking.
Hey Stuart,Thank you for your suggestions, I agree it is more fun to practice on songs, but since the great players excels on scale, it has to help. I also have been working on songs like more than a feeling, mother goose to name a few. I had tried them before going down stroke only and was wondering if you needed to be super man to have the speed. It was Neil comment on a review of my video of Over the Hills that has forced me to open my eyes. I will try your approach for the hand position. I am letting my pinky loose on the top of the guitar not anchored like if it is dead just for the height but do not have a string position reference other than when I start.
Salut Suzi, I am not sure of the real definition of cross picking. I know alternate picking is simpler approach than cross picking. I tried to find some definition over the internet, but everybody has a different opinion .From what I can see it seems rather than DUDUDU for alternate it is DDUDUU kind of thing and it is better for emphasis and syncopation. How did you start learning crosspicking?
Marc
Cori: don't worry any discussion is a good discussion. I would think that time signature, even though not so easy in general, does not increase much the challenge of alternate picking since your hand should follow the rhythm as if you were strumming.
Hybrid picking , that is another challenge, it would be interesting to have some advice . The memory (muscle memory in this case) also apply to alternate picking as it takes a while to have the accuracy because we pick the wrong string for a while (a long while)
Hi Rick, thanks for taking the time to comment. I agree that is not mandatory to learn it, but I find that it gives a great tool to make some run downs more fluid . I saw some videos of flat pikers competitions and this is amazing. Because I do not practice scales (I find difficult to have the discipline to do them ) I did not think to use them to practice but if want to improve, I will need to use them, thanks for the reminder . You must be pretty darn good since you have been advocating this aspect of practice for a long time. As you said no cheating makes you much better. Before TG I did not even know the technique, this is why I was focusing only on fingerpicking.
Hey Stuart,Thank you for your suggestions, I agree it is more fun to practice on songs, but since the great players excels on scale, it has to help. I also have been working on songs like more than a feeling, mother goose to name a few. I had tried them before going down stroke only and was wondering if you needed to be super man to have the speed. It was Neil comment on a review of my video of Over the Hills that has forced me to open my eyes. I will try your approach for the hand position. I am letting my pinky loose on the top of the guitar not anchored like if it is dead just for the height but do not have a string position reference other than when I start.
Salut Suzi, I am not sure of the real definition of cross picking. I know alternate picking is simpler approach than cross picking. I tried to find some definition over the internet, but everybody has a different opinion .From what I can see it seems rather than DUDUDU for alternate it is DDUDUU kind of thing and it is better for emphasis and syncopation. How did you start learning crosspicking?
Marc
Lavallee wrote:
I'm not completely certain about this, but I believe cross picking refers to successively striking different (often adjacent strings) in the same direction. I seem to recall an examples in Neil's lesson on "From the Beginning." So cross picking over the four highest strings might well look like UUUU DDDD. In alternate picking, the downs are typically, but not always, on the beat, but any number of "patterns" is possible.
-Stuart
Hi Marc,...
Salut Suzi, I am not sure of the real definition of cross picking. I know alternate picking is simpler approach than cross picking. I tried to find some definition over the internet, but everybody has a different opinion .From what I can see it seems rather than DUDUDU for alternate it is DDUDUU kind of thing and it is better for emphasis and syncopation. How did you start learning crosspicking?
Marc
I'm not completely certain about this, but I believe cross picking refers to successively striking different (often adjacent strings) in the same direction. I seem to recall an examples in Neil's lesson on "From the Beginning." So cross picking over the four highest strings might well look like UUUU DDDD. In alternate picking, the downs are typically, but not always, on the beat, but any number of "patterns" is possible.
-Stuart
Thanks for chipping in guys
Hi Mike, It took me so long to write the first answer and you guys went under the radar. The chromatic approach seems to work well as you are very good at picking. I am sure the scales are better since you have to vary between half step and full step. But I like your approach a lot since as you said you do not have to remember the pattern and it still warms up the fingers.Thanks for the tip
Tony , my good man, since cross picking is not clear for me as mentioned above, could you give an example of a song played better in crosspicking? Crosspicking seems to have some picking pattern form as well. I was just reading that crosspicking are patterns of 3 (and one group of 2) fitting in 4/4 time signature but there must be a variety of time signature that could be used
Marc
Hi Mike, It took me so long to write the first answer and you guys went under the radar. The chromatic approach seems to work well as you are very good at picking. I am sure the scales are better since you have to vary between half step and full step. But I like your approach a lot since as you said you do not have to remember the pattern and it still warms up the fingers.Thanks for the tip
Tony , my good man, since cross picking is not clear for me as mentioned above, could you give an example of a song played better in crosspicking? Crosspicking seems to have some picking pattern form as well. I was just reading that crosspicking are patterns of 3 (and one group of 2) fitting in 4/4 time signature but there must be a variety of time signature that could be used
Marc