Learning tough tunes...how do you go about it??

BigBear
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Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:19 pm

mark wrote:
Hi Tony,

Here's the approach I take to trying to learn difficult tunes.
First I think it's good to recognise that it is a difficult tune and losing any expectaion of playing it well with a few days or weeks.

I work on the first small section - probably about 4 bars and hopefully something that can be looped.
I try and get this completly memorised. when I can play this section at a slow tempo and from memory I move on to the next section (but keep practicing the first section as well). Eventually you have the whole tune and can put everything together.

If the tune is presently too difficult, it's good to work on it for a while and then drop it for a bit. When you come back to it it may seem a bit easier.

For easier or shorter tunes I would learn the whole lot at once but I don't think this works well for longer or more complicated tunes.
Tony- I was going to add my two cents but Mark expressed my approach perfectly. Build it in small pieces then hook them together. But back away frequently or it will start to seem like work!

Good luck mate!!

Cheers!! :cheer:


tovo
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Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:01 pm

mark wrote:
Hi Tony,


I work on the first small section - probably about 4 bars and hopefully something that can be looped.
I try and get this completly memorised. when I can play this section at a slow tempo and from memory I move on to the next section (but keep practicing the first section as well). Eventually you have the whole tune and can put everything together.
Thanks Mark. That's pretty much the way I go about it, and it's good to know I'm in good company. Thanks go to you and to all others who responded. Very useful info.


thereshopeyet
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Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:49 pm

Thanks


willem
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Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:57 am

dennisg wrote:
I think I tend to play a new song as as far as I can go until I trip over a hurdle. I'll practice that particular bit over and over until I feel comfortable, then move on to the next hurdle.

Currently I've been playing Sheryl Crow's Strong Enough, a song that constantly alternates measures between 2 beats and 4 beats. I've never seen another song quite like that. So the first hurdle was getting comfortable switching between the two beat patterns. Once I cleared that hurdle, I moved along to a chord I'd never seen before: a Bmadd13. It was pretty tricky at first landing on that chord, but I'm fairly comfortable with it now.

At any rate, one problem at a time for me. Them move along to the next one.
That chord looks lika a B-mad..lol...when i count and add13 it is an B note,,how does it look Dennis?? the fingerings !!


heyjoe
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Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:14 am

Hi Tony

I think your new nickname around here should be "The Thinker", because every time I see a new thread from you, I know I'm going to find a post which makes me think more about how or why I play guitar, or something guitar realted that makes me think- and I think that is a great thing.

I dont know where you go to have all these thought but keep going there, it makes TG a more interesting place to come.

As for how do I go about learning tough tunes, I hadnt given it any thought until you posted about it. Looking back at past attempts, I have realised that I have no set way of learning a tune, I dont use a metronome, I certainly dont keep to any transcriptions, I dont have any plan, which is probably why I'm useless at learning songs all the way through. When I come to a part which is too difficult for me, I stop there!

Looking through the replies you have received, I think its time I work on a plan to break down songs and learn them bit by bit and then join the bits up, and start working with one of those metronome torture devices.

Hope you are well

Joe


dennisg
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Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:41 am

willem wrote:
dennisg wrote:
I think I tend to play a new song as as far as I can go until I trip over a hurdle. I'll practice that particular bit over and over until I feel comfortable, then move on to the next hurdle.

Currently I've been playing Sheryl Crow's Strong Enough, a song that constantly alternates measures between 2 beats and 4 beats. I've never seen another song quite like that. So the first hurdle was getting comfortable switching between the two beat patterns. Once I cleared that hurdle, I moved along to a chord I'd never seen before: a Bmadd13. It was pretty tricky at first landing on that chord, but I'm fairly comfortable with it now.

At any rate, one problem at a time for me. Them move along to the next one.
That chord looks lika a B-mad..lol...when i count and add13 it is an B note,,how does it look Dennis?? the fingerings !!
It's like a Bm7, but instead of barre-ing the chord, you use your index finger on the 5th string, second fret. It took me a couple of days to land the chord reliably in tempo.


willem
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Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:52 am

dennisg wrote:
willem wrote:
dennisg wrote:
I think I tend to play a new song as as far as I can go until I trip over a hurdle. I'll practice that particular bit over and over until I feel comfortable, then move on to the next hurdle.

Currently I've been playing Sheryl Crow's Strong Enough, a song that constantly alternates measures between 2 beats and 4 beats. I've never seen another song quite like that. So the first hurdle was getting comfortable switching between the two beat patterns. Once I cleared that hurdle, I moved along to a chord I'd never seen before: a Bmadd13. It was pretty tricky at first landing on that chord, but I'm fairly comfortable with it now.

At any rate, one problem at a time for me. Them move along to the next one.
That chord looks lika a B-mad..lol...when i count and add13 it is an B note,,how does it look Dennis?? the fingerings !!
It's like a Bm7, but instead of barre-ing the chord, you use your index finger on the 5th string, second fret. It took me a couple of days to land the chord reliably in tempo.
so the notes are B(root)-F#-G-D-E or are there less strings involved ?


dennisg
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Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:03 am

willem wrote:
dennisg wrote:
willem wrote:
dennisg wrote:


That chord looks lika a B-mad..lol...when i count and add13 it is an B note,,how does it look Dennis?? the fingerings !!
It's like a Bm7, but instead of barre-ing the chord, you use your index finger on the 5th string, second fret. It took me a couple of days to land the chord reliably in tempo.
so the notes are B(root)-F#-G-D-E or are there less strings involved ?
You're doing an arpeggio, starting at the 5th string: so B - F# - G - D. Very unusual chord, but works perfectly in the song.


willem
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Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:14 am

dennisg wrote:
willem wrote:
dennisg wrote:
willem wrote:


It's like a Bm7, but instead of barre-ing the chord, you use your index finger on the 5th string, second fret. It took me a couple of days to land the chord reliably in tempo.
so the notes are B(root)-F#-G-D-E or are there less strings involved ?
You're doing an arpeggio, starting at the 5th string: so B - F# - G - D. Very unusual chord, but works perfectly in the song.

Yes I tryed and thought I know that sound! ''on the horizon has it too..measers 9 and 10 in the A section.. that open G string makes the sound i think,

.


MarkM
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Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:57 am

Great question Tony. I usually get a lot of value reading others responses here as well. As for me when I pick out a new song regardless of difficulty level I usually start with the chord progression. This will get my hands used to any weird chord fingerings and changes from one chord to the next. From there I'll strum through the song to get the rythem as I play along with Neil or the original song. I do this regardless if its for a strumming song or a finger picking song. Once I have that down then I'll either work on the picking pattern or the nuances of a strumming song like hammerons and pull offs. When I'm learning new song, depending on the difficulty, I'll only play this particular song when practicing. Weeks can go by and I'll play this one for 90% of the time. Now if its extrememly difficult for me I may shelve it for a few days and work on playing through others I've already learned to break things up a bit. When I do return to the song it usually seems easier as the muscle memory kicks in. If it's a real difficult song or has a part in it that my hands just don't want to cooperate with I'll just rinse and repeat the process until I get it down. If there is singing involved then I have to have the song down cold to even thing about adding vocals. All in all I guess that what I'm saying is that I'll practice an obscene amount of time on one song or one small part of a song to get it down. Having said that though, usually by the end of me learning a song I'm pretty sick of it by the end. So I'll put it down for a week or so and then pick it back up. Hope this helps.


MarkM


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