Acoustic/electric bass amplification - consistency in string volume

michelew
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Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:25 am

Hi y'all,

This could be another bloody stupid question, but here goes...

I have an acoustic bass with a pick up; a Tanglewood TW155A/BASS. I am currently amplifying it and recording it by plugging it into my iPad (using an Apogee Jam interface) and using GarageBand. While I'm still working out how to get the sound I want with the combo of amps and pedals, I am definitely able to record a bass track this way. The most recent being the bass part in the Nirvana video.

So what's the problem? Well... I'm getting very different volume using the same finger pressure (attack) for the E and A strings compared to the D and G strings. The G string notes are often quite a bit quieter, and sometimes disappear. I'm trying to hit the top strings a little harder to compensate but it's hard getting consistence.

I'm completely willing to concede that this may all be down to my inexperience with the bass and bad technique, but I'm wondering whether anyone has come across this before and if you did how you handled it. Do I just need to hit the top strings harder? Is this normal, perhaps for acoustics especially? Is it a set up issue, perhaps a pick up issue or... something else.

I'd love to understand what's happening here.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

M. (Frustrated bass-player want-to-be). :blink: :unsure: B)


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daryl
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Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:54 am

Does the problem happen when you use a plectrum or when you use your index/middle/ring fingers or when you use your thumb?

Also, just try recording hitting 4 quarter notes on the E then 4 on the A then 4 on the D and then 4 on the G using the 3 methods of plucking. Try this acoustically and electrically. What do the recordings look like?

Slight variations in volume will often happen (IMHO) that's why using a compressor is helpful. I've heard that McCartney even uses one. Is that true? I don't know. Neil?


wiley
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Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:30 am



michelew
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Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:42 pm

daryl wrote:
Does the problem happen when you use a plectrum or when you use your index/middle/ring fingers or when you use your thumb?

Also, just try recording hitting 4 quarter notes on the E then 4 on the A then 4 on the D and then 4 on the G using the 3 methods of plucking. Try this acoustically and electrically. What do the recordings look like?

Slight variations in volume will often happen (IMHO) that's why using a compressor is helpful. I've heard that McCartney even uses one. Is that true? I don't know. Neil?
Good questions Daryl. I think I'm able to get relatively consistent sound from the same string using either my first or index finger. I'm currently not using my ring finger nor a pick, but I'll see if it makes a difference. Similarly I'm not using my thumb much as I'm generally using it to rest on one of the strings, like the E itself when I'm not playing that string.

I'll try your experiment of recording it amplified and acoustically on the weekend sometime. That's a good idea.

The amp/pedal emulators I've been using from GarageBand most recently is the clean "cool jazz" option (which may be completely wrong for rock, U2). The only pedal it uses is a compressor. So I'm assuming that's OK. Actually I tried to find info on the best options (from GarageBand) for the bass set up of the band, but I haven't been successful yet.

I'll let you know how it goes.

Thanks

M.


michelew
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Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:52 pm

wiley wrote:
Michelle,

Don't know if this will help or not, it may be any of those things in question, hard to figure out without seeing the actual mixdown.

Is the pickup 'piezo' (undersaddle) type or what? Transducer, etc....

Are you using any sort of preamp (does your bass have an internal preamp - it would have a volume and perhaps a tone knob on the guitar and need a battery (probably))

I'm not a huge fan of GarageBand, but lots of folks are (50 million Elvis Fans can't be all wrong!). So, how are you, if you are, using any plug-ins

Explaining 'Plug-ins' - software, like an amp model, or a compressor, or an effects loop or the like;

Things like EQs, compressors, gates, and limiters.

These have their place and most top 40 stuff uses them in studio and most live performances of any size uses them also.

No, you don't need to rush out and spend some dough on these, some form of them are usually included in a DAW like GarageBand and, since all you are doing is recording this should be fine.

Lastly, if you are using amp modeling then make sure the tone is set correctly.
Well I'm told that the pick up is a b-band undersaddle system with a 3band parametric EQ on board. :) And thanks again for that. I'll try adjusting the tone nobs on the bass itself. I just checked and the bass knob is at about 9, whereas the mids and trembles are at about 5 or 6 so that definitely might be part of the problem I'll adjust the settings and see if i hear any difference.

As I told Daryl, the emulator uses a compressor, but no other effect pedals.

I know NOTHING about amps and pedals. That's a brave new world to me. I'm currently just trying or get my head around the options in GarageBand and how they change the sound.

Thanks for the suggestions Wiley. You obviously have experience with amps and the like. There's lots to learn.

I'll get back to you on the results.

Thanks.

M


wiley
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Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:44 pm



michelew
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Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:46 am

Thanks for the advice Wiley. I'll definitely put it into action.

And I really do hear you on the battery and settings.

Ta

M


michelew
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Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:11 am

Wiley,

I'm just reporting back that changing the settings on the bass, mids and treble knobs on the bass itself does seem to allow me to even out the difference between the volume I'm getting on the four strings using a similar attack. I've more experimenting to do, but it's nice to get a bit more understanding of how to adjust things. I thought the knobs adjusted the tone only, but it seems they do more than that. Hmmm... I really should look for a manual on the pickup. I'm probably missing a bunch of other simple things. I haven't changed the battery yet, since I need to buy a new one, but I will do that as a precaution too.

Daryl,

I haven't experimented with the things you suggested yet. I intend to try to see whether there are acoustic differences first. That should give me a better idea about whether I need to just adjust things electrically, and whether there's a physical element too. Actually given how easy it is to do, I should have tried it first, but got distracted with some hiccups in recording to my iMac. It's all good experience for my brain and helps me to understand the bass in different ways so I'll definitely do it... When my brain is more awake. :)

Thanks.

M.


michelew
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Sat May 25, 2013 4:29 am

I'm here to report on my progress in resolving the issue I've been experiencing with inconsistent recording volume between the E and A strings and the D and G strings of my bass.

Since the previous post (two and a half months ago) I've changed the battery, experimented with different playing pressures, experimented with the controls on the bass (which helped when i turned the trebles way up, but i didn't like the overall tone) and listened to the string volume acoustically and recorded. Acoustically the strings produce a fairly similar volume for a similar playing pressure. Once it's plugged in, the D and G strings are softer, in any recording.

Well today I took my bass in for a set up. The action at the 12 fret is way too high and makes it hard to play. They checked the pickup and sure enough it had shifted under the saddle and wasn't properly connecting along the length of the saddle.

YEH!!! An answer and hopefully a solution once it's been fixed. What a relief to find out that there really was something needing adjustment that will fix the problem and it wasn't just me being ignorant about how to play the bass and how to adjust the pickup controls.


So if you're getting inconsistent volume out of the strings when you record, your pick up might need to be adjusted.

M.


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