A few 12-String Questions

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Music Junkie
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Tue Apr 09, 2013 3:58 pm

thereshopeyet wrote:
Jason
Interesting topic, I've wondered about 12 string guitars.
I came across the following video a while ago.
In the video he suggests tuning down a whole step to take some tension off the bridge and make it easier to play.
Do many folk tune down Standard Tuning even on a six string, to make playing easier?
Although it would reduce the tension making it easier to play, wouldn't it change the sound of the guitar if playing with other folk
tuned to Standard Tuning?

Dermot

:)

Dermot:

I saw that same clip while looking around on YT for sound samples of various models. In fact many players recommend tuning down a full step to reduce the stress. I like that idea very much.

I will tune my 6 string down a half step to a full step sometimes while learning a certain song (if that is how the original is played). I am kind of a nut when it comes to that. I like to hear the same sound as I hear on the recording (albeit much more sloppy while I play... :silly: ). The nice thing is that while your guitar is tuned down, it is easy to get back to standard tuning by simply placing a capo on the first fret for a half step and the second fret for a whole step. That way, if you are playing with others in standard tuning, you could be right back in the mix of things... :)

Jason


dennisg
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Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:54 pm

Music Junkie wrote:

Yep, same thing I found about the current models. I would expect that the 12-string models will be coming sometime soon.... B)

You are also quite right about the market for used lefty 12-strings.... I have searched high and low with VERY little success..... It seems that most of us lefties tend to hold on to the guitars that we buy....lol

I also thought about the Baritone..... How is that, by the way? Would love to hear that in action..... ;)

I am certainly being cautious, as I don't want to settle. If I get to a point where it is all too much, and I can't find something that fits just right, I could very well scrap the whole idea.... :unsure:

Thanks again... :)
I love the baritone. Funny, me being a Taylor guy, I wanted to buy a Taylor baritone for the longest time, but I was never enchanted by the tone. One day when I was in Los Angeles, I happened to walk in to a guitar shop that had a Martin baritone. I tried it. Loved it. But just couldn't pull the trigger. My wife was with me, and she kept encouraging me to buy it. So, I did. Now, aside from my little Grand Concert, it's become the guitar I play the most, probably because it accommodates my voice pretty well on a lot of songs.


thereshopeyet
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Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:19 pm

Jason Wrote:
I am kind of a nut when it comes to that. I like to hear the same sound as I hear on the recording (albeit much more sloppy while I play... ). The nice thing is that while your guitar is tuned down, it is easy to get back to standard tuning by simply placing a capo on the first fret for a half step and the second fret for a whole step. That way, if you are playing with others in standard tuning, you could be right back in the mix of things...
Jason

I never thought of it like that, I'll experiment with the tuning and capo.

:)


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Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:56 pm

dennisg wrote:
I love the baritone. Funny, me being a Taylor guy, I wanted to buy a Taylor baritone for the longest time, but I was never enchanted by the tone. One day when I was in Los Angeles, I happened to walk in to a guitar shop that had a Martin baritone. I tried it. Loved it. But just couldn't pull the trigger. My wife was with me, and she kept encouraging me to buy it. So, I did. Now, aside from my little Grand Concert, it's become the guitar I play the most, probably because it accommodates my voice pretty well on a lot of songs.
Is it set up similar to the Taylor, with the double strings in the middle and a longer scale length, or is it a different version? The clips I have seen of some of the baritones, show them to be more full sounding as well....


dennisg
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Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:59 pm

It's a 6-string, not an 8, so there are no doubled strings. I fingerpick it almost exclusively, so I didn't want a guitar with octave strings. Yes, much longer scale length.


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neverfoundthetime
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Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:27 am

Good point on tuning down. I often tune down a half or even a whole step but I'm doing it for the sound and to fit the key of the song not to keep the guitar from pulling itself apart! If there's any danger of that, you've got the wrong guitar! It is easier to play tuned down but if you are using light strings its already no problem. I do not agree with the video's statement about not leaving the guitar around strung and tuned when not playing... there is no issue at all... unless its a crap guitar! Should be nice and heavy too.

Just a thought, why not get one made for you. Call up Martin and ask for a quote. I say Martin as, from what you have said, that would be the sort of sound you are looking for and they do have a track record.

PS: Dennis, I sure would like to see and hear that 8!


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Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:51 am

neverfoundthetime wrote:
Good point on tuning down. I often tune down a half or even a whole step but I'm doing it for the sound and to fit the key of the song not to keep the guitar from pulling itself apart! If there's any danger of that, you've got the wrong guitar! It is easier to play tuned down but if you are using light strings its already no problem. I do not agree with the video's statement about not leaving the guitar around strung and tuned when not playing... there is no issue at all... unless its a crap guitar! Should be nice and heavy too.

Just a thought, why not get one made for you. Call up Martin and ask for a quote. I say Martin as, from what you have said, that would be the sort of sound you are looking for and they do have a track record.

PS: Dennis, I sure would like to see and hear that 8!
As a lefty, I will have to have one made for me no matter what.... ;)

Dennis' baritone is a 6 string, just with a much longer scale. I would like to hear that one as well. Both the 6 sting and 8 string baritones have a very nice sound to them.... :)


Hydroman52
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Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:59 am

Jason,

I had an Ovation Legend 12 string back in the early 1970s. It had an under saddle bridge pickup and sounded very good and played easily. I used it mainly for recording rhythm on songs by America and such. I had a matching 6 string (without pickup) that I'd mic up, too. It was a durable guitar and relatively inexpensive. I sold it when I was moving around and needed cash (still have the 6 string). I would consider one if I were in the market for a 12 string, but it may be hard to find. Another thing about Ovations is that they make shallow and deep bowl models. I always thought the deep bowl models sounded much better when played acoustically. The sound gap seemed to narrow as they were plugged in and amplified. I don't remember playing a 12 string since I sold the Ovation back in the late 1970s, but I had played a number of others when I was looking for one back then and the Ovation won the contest. I bought it used and saved a considerable amount by doing that. Other musicians seemed to turn their noses up at the thought of a guitar with a round "plastic" back (actually, it's more like fiberglass), but I never had any issues.

Another thought might be to try "Nashville" tuning. You can do it with a 6 string. I've never done it. Here's some dope on it :

Nashville tuning

There is a lot of information on this on the WEB. Just do a search on it and you'll get lots of good ideas. Sounds like you might have a spare guitar to try it out?

Another thing that is in between a 12 an 6 string is the Martin D-7RM (Roger McGuinn 7 string). I saw him a few months ago and had noticed this guitar setting on stage. It looked odd because there's an extra peg in the bridge that sticks out like a sore thumb. I had a front row seat, but it looked like some abalone inlay to my old eyes rather than a peg. When he picked it up and started playing it, it was obvious something was different. After the song (maybe it was before?) he explained the guitar:

[video][/video]



Here's a closeup of the guitar :

Martin D-7RM at Elderly Music

This little addition makes quite a remarkable difference, but I'm afraid this model may be out of your price range unless you can find a good used one.

Hydroman52


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neverfoundthetime
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Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:39 am

Love that 7 string Hydro! Roger nails it with the g-octave making the difference.

And you are right about the Ovation 12, that was the very first 12 I tried as a friend had one and it did sound and play beautifully.


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neverfoundthetime
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Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:48 am

This is what a 12 string should sound like... I think Dan is using a Jumbo Guild here...



And Justin Hayward with the same here (?)...



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