Hybrid/crossover nylon string guitars - any you'd like to rave about?

michelew
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Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:57 pm

dougyoung wrote:
I'm certainly just more tuned into the sound of steel, I like sustain, which is the part that always bothers me with most nylons. But it's all about your desired sound, and some things sound best on nylon. And some of the higher end classical guitars sustain nearly as much as a steel string, and are louder. I do like the rounder tone. The nice thing about a crossover/hybrid is that there's less adjustment if you're used to a steel string. As far as tunings, I've even tried nylon in DADGAD! These days, classical players are pretty experimental, and many of them use alternate tunings. It's a little harder to quickly change between tunings, but otherwise it can work fine.

I had one of those multiac's for a while, too. I got it mostly for the synth access, which is a whole other challenge! Another whole area I just never had time to fully explore, so I gave up.
Gosh Doug, no sustain from your poor Hill, no wonder you don't dig the sound.

I suspect you and Vanessa would get on like a house on fire. Her mantra is "sustain, sustain, sustain". She polices it around here. :) and we love her for it, for making us better guitar players.

I find it rather curious that you don't associate sustain with classical guitars. Mine has it in spades, at least as much if not more I suspect that my Larrivee steel string. I have tried some nylons that weren't up to scratch, but sustain is so important that I suspect many classical guitar fans would be cringing at the thought that classical guitars don't have the goods in that regard.

Have you tried hard tension nylons? I use them on my classical. I'm not sure how they affect sustain, but they do increase the volume and give a brighter sound. They feel closer to steel strings to play too. It might be worth a try.

In the end it's all a matter of taste really. I swing both ways, steel or nylon. ;)

Shel


thereshopeyet
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Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:09 pm

Doug, Michelle and Willem

Gosh, some great comments to keep in mind.

I promise not to moan about getting a new guitar again.

Maybe one day I'll surprise myself !

:)


dougyoung
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Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:48 pm

I think it's more about the envelope of sustain. To me, with most classicals, I hear a loud "plink", followed by rapid decay, then perhaps sustain at a lower level. It's just the nature of nylon, and I think most people consider it a feature, not a problem. Growing up with the idea that a Les Paul and a cranked Marshall was the ideal, I want looong sustain :-) Another factor for me is that I use acrylic nails, which work great on steel, maybe not so well for getting a good tone from a classical. I've certainly heard higher end classicals that have more sustain. A friend has a Greg Byer, which start at 10K and quickly move up, and it has the best qualities of both worlds. Kenny Hill's higher end guitars are great, too, and I'm sure there are many others. But it's a different sound, and I think people choose nylon because they want the sound of nylon - it's just not what I usually hear in my head. Occasionally when I do, I grab my Hill and have fun with it! Other tones are all good when you want them, nice to have some variety available.

But more to the point of the thread, I think there is lots of variety in the crossovers. Thin bodies or full, different neck profiles, different ways of approaching amplification. Worth thinking about what you are going to use it for - or get several!


michelew
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Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:22 pm

Doug,

Thanks for explaining what you meant in more detail. I'm absolutely on the same page now. Thanks for being patient with my questions and presumptions/assumptions.

I fairly recently started venture into the world of electric guitars and the electric bass. It came as a bit of a shock just how much sustain you get and the extent to which you need to dampen the strings that you don't want to hear. It's definitely a different sound profile as you say.

But hey! Encouraging me to get several new guitars? Now you're just being mischievous, no make that downright wicked. ;) :P

Thanks for all your input to this thread. It's great getting the views of someone with your level of experience.

Michele


haoli25
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Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:12 pm

Thanks for the thread, Shel. This has really been fun and informative. Doug is a wealth of guitar knowledge.

I have a nominee for your consideration. In North America, Canadian built Stonebridge Guitars are excellent. (In Europe and the rest of the world they are Furch Guitars). I think their model FN23CR-C-E hybrid is a great little guitar. If you happen to run across one in the guitar stores, pick it and play it. They are very hard to put down. The best part is they are not cheap, but they are very affordable.

Bill


http://stonebridgeguitars.com/fn23cr-c-e-nylon-string/


michelew
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Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:04 am

Bill - nice looking guitar, interesting, I'll look out for it. That's one skinny neck for a nylon.

Thanks

Shel




Summary of hybrid/crossover nylon guitars mentioned in this thread so far.

Alhambra - Crossover CS-1 CW E2 - Review by Doug Young - http://www.acousticguitar.com/News-Feat ... -E2-Review

Córdoba GK Pro - Review by Doug Young - http://www.acousticguitar.com/News-Feat ... Pro-Review

Ken Hill - Doug's - (model?) - one model reviewed by Doug http://www.acousticguitar.com/News-Feat ... e-C-Review

Taylor NS series - (Vanessa's and David's) - the 314CE as reviewed by Doug http://www.acousticguitar.com/News-Feat ... E-N-Review

http://www.taylorguitars.com/guitars/ac ... gory/nylon

The summary page if others Doug looked at. http://www.acousticguitar.com/News-Feat ... on-Strings

Stonebridge Guitars - FN23CR-C-E hybrid - as suggested by Bill - (In Europe and the rest of the world they are Furch Guitars) http://stonebridgeguitars.com/fn23cr-c-e-nylon-string/


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neverfoundthetime
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Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:11 am

Uh, you talking to me?

I didn't realize I've been playing a hybrid for the past 20 years! I thought it was western/Folk guitar, anyway, that's the term used back then. Wiki does not agree with you on the terminology as a Hybrid, they say, is "A hybrid guitar is an electric guitar with the ability to produce a signal with the tonal quality of an acoustic guitar in addition to a typical electric signal from a magnetic pickup, allowing a wide tonal pallette performers with a varied repertoire. Hybrid guitars typically use a piezoelectric pickup to generate the acoustic-like signal." But what does Wiki know, fist time I consulted it, it got Elvis' death wrong by 1 whole year! Cross-over seems a better term and Doug's description fits my Takamine CN 60C exactly. I paid £1500 for it 20 years ago and for the past 20 years I have been playing that or my 12 string, I still don't own a steel 6 string although Miss Ale's Seagull has been getting lots of attention from me past few months.

What I liked about it was that it was much easier for me to play than a steel string and the bass notes were louder and had more sustain. Actually, both E strings and the A and D sound really good but the G and B strings sound dead as a Dodo compared to steel. Willem and Dan have previously commented on the dull sound. If I plug in, that problem vanishes. So its been an easy and fun guitar to play but it now gets much less play than Miss Ale's Seagull or my 12. Interestingly I have miss-treated it badly, though not intentionally. I have had to replace the machine heads and I have cracked it and worn down the wood near the sound hole à la Tommy Emmanuel. That could never happen to the 12, I'd be very upset! It has the narrower neck (Shel, you risk your health thumb-wrapping that wide necked classical guitar of yours!) and 14 frets and a cut away but the action is a little high.

I thought it would be good to use it to learn Ness' Ed Sheeran song, I See Fire, but the riff does not work without the steel strings with the hammer-ons and pull-offs, especially with the capo on fret 6. Not enough sustain!

I do love the Spanish classical guitar sound as my mother played every day since I was 11. AMERICA's guitar sound was the next big influence on me so I want to hear that sound too, hence the 12 string.... and hence my love affair with the (one day to be mine) BSG as that has the long sustain and overtones of a 12. I agree with Bill on the Furch/Stonebridge and I've played one, the Czechs make a great guitar, BSG is also Czech and the have a different sound to the American or German (Lakewood) guitars, one I really like.

Interesting discussion, thanks Shel and Doug.

This is the Takamine EN 60C but it looks different to mine and I think it is a much newer version but the sound is pretty much the same. The info is in Japanese but the guitar speaks for itself ;-).


michelew
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Wed Feb 26, 2014 9:20 pm

Hey Chris!

I see your point about "hybrid" I would have previously thought of a semi-hollow bodied electric jazz guitar or something similar. You need to include the term "nylon" too I guess. :)

It's funny how terms change. I remember you telling me about your guitar when I was looking for a thinner necked nylon for Sue. I couldn't find that model here in Oz. in the end I got her a small bodied nylon and that seems OK for a while. We ended up changing it out for a Taylor DS Mini...though it's getting as much attention as the LAG was. It's pretty though. :)

I'll look out for Taks when/if I decide to jump on this dream. :)

Good luck coaxing the Seagull off Miss Ale. Planning on treating us with an upload anytime soon?

The thumb wrap, yeh...probably not that smart. But... It's becoming easier. Maybe my estrogen is helping to stretch it. :)

Thanks for your thoughts and recommendation sweet man.

Shel


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